HBLRT - Ninth Street Plans

Pondering traffic flows - Hudson Bergen, change to PATH to New York.

I feel certain that the walk distance is shorter HB Newport to PATH Pavonia and HB Exchange Place to PATH Exchange Place then HB Hoboken Terminal to PATH Hoboken.
If I were coming in from the north - Bergen Co. or south - Jersey City, Bayonne; I would change at Newport or Exchange Pl.

Time to get out my GPS and do a little walking at lunch time.

Not a bad idea, haven't done lunch in Hoboken in a while.

I think you're probably right on the Hobooken distance, that's an enormous distance.

FWIW, I had lunch a few weeks ago at the new grilled cheese resto in Jersey City. It's called MELT, and it's on Jersey Avenue north of Third street, about 2 blocks south of the Harsimus viaduct.

I'd guess it's about four long blocks west of the Newport HB station.

No doubt that Exchange Place's literal option is the best HBLRT offers vis a vis PATH. We agree with AndyB.

We might disagree with the assertion that the transfer between HBLRT and PATH at Hoboken is longer than the comparable move at Pavonia/Newport.

First, the Hoboken transfer, while indeed lengthy and far from optimal, is at least a straight shot. No worrying about (or waiting for!) heavy vehicular traffic to let one complete his pedestrian journey.

Second, the Pavonia/Newport journey is deceptive. The above-ground portion of the transfer might be shorter than Hoboken's, but the PATH access underground virtually mirrors that "shorter" segment for at least two-thirds of the above-ground route. That adds up to distance -- and footfalls.

Should PATH ever revisit its plan for a station access site west of Washington Avenue, the potential transfer, while hardly a European ideal, would be a lot better, indeed.

That would (or will) still leave one competitor for "most inconvenient HBLRT transfer" vying with Hoboken: the soon-to-open Port Imperial station in Weehawken.

Douglas John Bowen wrote:That would (or will) still leave one competitor for "most inconvenient HBLRT transfer" vying with Hoboken: the soon-to-open Port Imperial station in Weehawken.

I took a look at the Weehawken hike from Light rail to ferry last week. It's quite a distance, and the path will cross a three lane highway. And, unlike Hoboken, it's all outdoors, in the rain or sleet or snow...

For me the downside of transfering from HB to PATH at Pavonia or especially Exchange Pl would be the added redundant travel time as I take the 33rd St PATH line. For passengers to WTC it would be an improvement. I would use thru service to JC to get to Newport or Harsimus to shop, and Liberty State Park to take my bike out for a ride.

I have to say I was originally annoyed at the long distance I have to walk between the PATH station and the HB at Hoboken, but now find it to be one of the most pleasant parts of my commute. It is very pedestrian friendly. Walking through the main platform of Hoboken Terminal is like a visit to Europe for a few minutes, and the waterside park that connects the terminal to the HB station is one of the nicest places on the waterfront. Its a shame that there is no connection to the Jersey City waterfront yet, but now that Lefrak has his abatement and will break ground soon on the Shore Club development just south of the station, it might just be a year or two away.

Regarding transfer times. Exchange Place is clearly the most convenient. I would agree with Mr. Bowen that the Hoboken transfer is much more convenient than Newport's transfer, and with blasito that it is kind of nice to walk through the terminal and by the waterfront. In lousy weather, I might think otherwise.

Hoboken Terminal is, of course, more than the PATH transfer, which makes the bypass problematic.

Re: the connection to the waterfront. It will get built relatively soon, the question is how to deal with the Long Slip. NJT may either fill it in or bridge it. I've spoken with NJT reps about this, and they say that they will connect it to Jersey City, but they are still studying the best way to do so.

I'm posting this comment here since this is being discussed. I'm an occasional rider of HBLR, usually from Jersey Avenue to Hoboken. I find the service is pretty good. I too have sometimes gotten off at Newport-Pavonia to get an Uptown PATH train but unless I'm in a real hurry I prefer Hoboken. Partly becauuse I'm a railfan, I admit, but also because I'm more likely to get a seat by going to Hoboken and I'm not that crazy about having to cross - is that Washington Blvd?

While reading this thread I began to wonder if it would be possible for the Port Authority to build a PATH entrance at Hoboken closer to the HBLR. Obviously it would be possible, but will they? It would also benefit NJ Transit riders since the train terminal platform tracks have expanded southward over the years.

FWIW, I often use the PATH entrance on the northeast corner of the NJ Transit concourse - near the vegetable stands - and this entrance is exactly the same as it was the first time I rode. Steep stairs, dingy atmosphere, that unique PATH odor. And that was 40 years ago! Hey they shouda put escalators in - somewhere - back when Jimmy Carter was still President. I believe PATH really needs to look at making major station improvements at Hoboken. I think I notice this more nowadays because of the contrast when you come from the HBLR.

Perhaps the station has historical landmark status and this complicates things? Tommy

Tommy, I think the location of PATH makes it tough to connect with HBLRT in Hoboken. If they went "up" with an HBLRT bridge over the 15 NJT tracks, they'd prob foul the historic status of the station.

If they tried to extend PATH underground another 500 feet to about track 12, my guess is they'd prob have an enormous water issue, as well as shutting down several NJT tracks for the years it would take do do the job. If they wanted to make a one-on-one interchange, the place to do it would be out past Pullman Yard, where the HBLRT is on a bridge and PATH is about 20 feet below ground

Or they could have just run HBLRT along the North side of Hoboken yard and the station (where the old trolley's ran) and ended at the front door of Hoboken Station--except the City didn't want that.

I was thinking more of an entranceway on the south end of the concourse, not extending the PATH tracks. Maybe a pair of escalators and a brightly lit corridor leading to the present underground train area. Located somewhere around - I guess Tk 16 - near the entrance to the ferry. Mostly to seperate HBLR-PATH riders from NJ Transit riders -at rush hour the concourse can get very crowded.

I believe most of that area was originally filled in though, so Lackawanna you're probably right about there being a potential for a big water problem. Tommy

There is (was?) a concourse on the second floor of Hoboken Terminal from the restaurant at the south end, past the top of the stairs, and out to the upper deck of the ferry slips. I wonder if that could be adapted into a traffic separation for pedestrians and two story access to the PATH?

It would probably add too much horizontal distance, and you'd need elevators / escelators at both ends to make it work