Closing the Gap to Atlantic City

While consulting the NJT rail map for an upcoming trip it struck me as odd that NJT could have made the River Line heavy rail and connected the Atlantic City line to the rest of the system. While not exactly direct with some changes on each end it looks possible if not cheap. Is the only real market for Atlantic city from Philly? I have not ever spent any time in AC and don't realize who the normal clientele is for this city.

What made NJT decide to go with light rail for this run?

And while I do realize for all intents the AC line is connected by the River Line, it is slow and non-direct service.

The end points of the RiverLINE dictated the use of light rail equipment. I'd love to see an ML try to negotiate the streets of Camden, the roller coaster into Trenton, and if they ever extend the line, on to the Statehouse. I do agree that using regular equipment would end the temporal separation required by the FRA.

I can't compete with Trainlawyer for knowledge about the topic except to add that when the River Line was put in service, many people called it a political boondoggle, big waste of taxpayer's money.

And so, according to Professor Edwards, once again politics trumps practicality. Thanks for the history lesson, things I had suspected but had never really heard elsewhere.

I know this is supposed to be a river line discussion, but as AC is in the title, I just want to switch gears and talk about rail. While it appears ridership has been strong, I do think they need to revisit the line and plan some more accessible stations. Cherry Hill set-up doesn't really cut the mustard, it's tucked away in a place that is so out of sight, many don't even know it's there. One drawback is the infrequent service, but the price and the convenience makes the train better than the bus from Phila and Lindenwold. Just last week, the NJT automated tweet said ACRL was running 20 min late because of heavy usage. Was there actually an SRO train? This is what I like to see. In the midst of an economic contraction, when businesses are closing and casinos are divesting, we still have people that want to go to AC in droves, for other purposes besides just gambling. The new AC economy should be diverse, with malls, restaurants, and fun activities. Bring back a bowling alley, or something clean and safe! Something to compete with White House Black market and Applebees on the food front.

train2 wrote:While consulting the NJT rail map for an upcoming trip it struck me as odd that NJT could have made the River Line heavy rail and connected the Atlantic City line to the rest of the system. While not exactly direct with some changes on each end it looks possible if not cheap. Is the only real market for Atlantic city from Philly? I have not ever spent any time in AC and don't realize who the normal clientele is for this city.

What made NJT decide to go with light rail for this run?

And while I do realize for all intents the AC line is connected by the River Line, it is slow and non-direct service.

What real impetus would there be to resurrecting the route of the Nellie Bly for NYP-ACY service? The more direct route would be the former CNJ Southern Division/Southern Secondary.

The end points of the RiverLINE dictated the use of light rail equipment

No. Only as designed for light rail. The line in Trenton originally ran onto Track 3 of the NEC station. There was no reason not to build a new station at Walter Rand for NJT FRA rail either. Freights can only run at night now.

Actually the mileage of the Blue Comet route was about the same as New York-Atlantic City via Frankford Jct.

And has been discussed umpteen times before, the Southern Secondary, formerly Southern Division is a much slower rail line (even if you changed out rail, ties, ballast, and bridges). Don't forget, the Northeast Corridor has grade seperation where as the Southern is all at ground level with numerous grade crossings and really doesn't get clear until after Whiting where the population density begins to drop off.

But why can't NJT if there are so many grade crossing rebuild the line to HSR 110mph standards but never pass 79mph.

Atlantic city is done, The casions should have gotten together and worked out aces better , but its a lost cause

Daily ridership to AC according to NJT's Quarterly Ridership Trends, is just 2400. That's an average of just 100 passengers per trip. Should scarce money be pumped into speeding up the Atlantic City line, or into, say, fixing crumbling bridges north of Newark or more urban buses in Newark and Camden?

If the line were improved, that could take the trip time down from 95 minutes to, what, 80? There's still the jitney at the other end that can add 30 minutes to the trip. How many more passengers would that extra 15 minutes attract?

The C&A ramp would need re-connecting & the streetcar sections removed & another ramp added to connect the two lines. Lot of money for a long, slow trip with few riders past Camden.

You can take the one NJT bus (usually an MCI coach vs a NABI transit bus) between TRE & PHL, or take SEPTA on their Trenton line to PHL. You can also take amtrak. Then you take the ACL train for that leg.

loufah wrote:Daily ridership to AC according to NJT's Quarterly Ridership Trends, is just 2400. That's an average of just 100 passengers per trip. Should scarce money be pumped into speeding up the Atlantic City line, or into, say, fixing crumbling bridges north of Newark or more urban buses in Newark and Camden?

If the line were improved, that could take the trip time down from 95 minutes to, what, 80? There's still the jitney at the other end that can add 30 minutes to the trip. How many more passengers would that extra 15 minutes attract?

When you run too few trains at odd times of day, and not the times that could attract the most passengers, that keeps passenger numbers low. That's what NJT did to the Dinky recently, to push their BRT abomination on the public; and they have the courts on their side right now.

Why would a jitney add 30 minutes? Not even in traffic would that be the case. AC is not that spread out.

CJPat wrote:the Southern Secondary, formerly Southern Division is a much slower rail line

Not if actually rebuilt, and especially beyond the standards for a secondary line. (Of course, what with the line being virtually abandoned through the Pine Barrens, you can't operate at any speed at all there.)

The ACES trains with only one intermediate stop were not much faster than the Royal Blue with multiple stops—if faster at all. Imitating the failed Amtrak service was bound to fail either way; and ACES failed faster than that service.

Literalman wrote:Actually the mileage of the Blue Comet route was about the same as New York-Atlantic City via Frankford Jct.

No it really is not. Get a map and measure, and don't rely on milepost numbers. Even the most parallel road routes end up being over 20 miles shorter than the NEC/ACL via Frankford Junction.

amtrakowitz wrote: Why would a jitney add 30 minutes? Not even in traffic would that be the case. AC is not that spread out.

The web site says "Jitneys pick up passengers at designated stops at each casino exactly 30 minutes before the departure time for each train." I don't know how soon the jitneys depart from the convention center/train station after train arrival. Their headways aren't listed. Last time I took one, near the Showboat, it was about a 20 minute wait and around a 10-minute ride as we hit all the other Boardwalk casinos.