NY train engineer suspended after video shows him reading

There's a HUGE difference between telling a conductor, "A guy left a package under his seat when he got off. It looks funny."

And telling a conductor, "I was watching your engineer through the door and he's not doing his job the right way."

As a commuter on MNCR, I have to say I'm disturbed by the tone of a lot of posts on this thread.

I see a lot of concern for RR employees who might get caught breaking rules (the assumption being that it's somehow unfair that they get caught.)

I see concern for railfans whose access might get restricted so that they won't catch RR employees breaking rules.

I don't see a lot of concern for the passengers, RR employees, and possible bystanders who might get injured or killed if an engineer causes a wreck because he/she is reading instead of looking out the front window.

I'm not an MNCR employee, but when I hear "breaking rules," I don't hear "didn't check the right box." I tend to hear "doing something that might have gotten someone killed." And since I ride the trains regularly, as do many people I know, that means "something that might have gotten me or someone I care about killed." I'd feel a lot safer if I knew that RR employees were likely to get caught whenever they break the rules, not just when something awful happens as a result.

Tommy Meehan wrote:There's a HUGE difference between telling a conductor, "A guy left a package under his seat when he got off. It looks funny."

And telling a conductor, "I was watching your engineer through the door and he's not doing his job the right way."

Better than my experience of having to call the MTA PD Non-Emergency hotline because their MOW employees had a habit of leaving an access gate to the LIRR Mainline open. Personally there's no difference between either situation, and more so when you're reporting a potential safety hazard to the public.

I am not opposed to people filming a violation, I am however opposed to those that seek the media to get their point accros, send it on disk to MNCR not to NBC.
As for rule breaking, the guy who filmed the engineer was breaking rules too, he obviously could not comprehend the do not block cabdoor sticker.
Let the supervision of Employees be done by their supervisors, don't pretent to know you know what a violation is.
Several colleques got called in because someone (nameless) called that they let a passenger operate train, only to show the Engineer had a student that day.
Another Engineer got called for operating a train with cab door open, only to prove the engineer had permission due to no AC on that car and to give passengers some ventilation.

DutchRailnut wrote:I am not opposed to people filming a violation, I am however opposed to those that seek the media to get their point accros, send it on disk to MNCR not to NBC.
As for rule breaking, the guy who filmed the engineer was breaking rules too, he obviously could not comprehend the do not block cabdoor sticker.
Let the supervision of Employees be done by their supervisors, don't pretent to know you know what a violation is.
Several colleques got called in because someone (nameless) called that they let a passenger operate train, only to show the Engineer had a student that day.
Another Engineer got called for operating a train with cab door open, only to prove the engineer had permission due to no AC on that car and to give passengers some ventilation.

Amen Dutch, Amen....

Just because a passenger is on the train doesn't mean they automatically know everything that is going on, and as the old saying goes "a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing". Then to automatically assume something out of the ordinary MUST be wrong and call it in is absolutely ridiculous.

This engineer is a moron - and must live under a rock to still be reading like that and then on his cell phone after Chatsworth. But it is what it is. However, at the same time, lets not get crazy here and assume that any mistake any engineer or trainman or whoever makes is going to result in the death of someone. We are human too. Sheesh. And often times, the engineer has the most to loose, as they are most vulnerable and most as risk from their screw up, or that of someone else. And then of course, their livelihood being on the line as well. Lots of engineers have been killed in the line of duty in accidents.

Anyway like I said earlier, the engineer might not be doing anything wrong, but to a bystander/passenger taking a small picture or video of a very small slice of time means its very easy to get that taken absolutely and totally out of context (calling in a "stranger" running the train, which was a student engineer for example)

I seem to think that the individual taking these pictures was or still is some sort of a supervisor with the Transit Authority. Somebody told me that in an e-mail but I do not still have that particular e-mail. I do think that this will contribute to more friction between railfans and railroaders and this is most unfortunate but in my opinion the railfans do more to hurt their cause especially with regard to this particular area.
UNFORTUNATE IN EVERY RESPECT FOR EVERYBODY. I do not like reading about these things but they happen whether I like it or not.
Noel Weaver

Jtgshu, good well balanced post as ususal. I agree a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. It can mislead us into thinking we know things that we don't really know. Been there myself.

Noel Weaver wrote:...but in my opinion the railfans do more to hurt their cause especially with regard to this particular area.

At the risk of accidentally interpreting a comment as a gross generalization, I'm curious / wondering if you could elaborate so I can better understand this point.

I hope Noel maybe doesn't reply.

I think most of us know what he means. It's the same in a lot of professions where the members are highly visible, serve the public, are subject to being second-guessed and also have a fan community. Some fan blows the whistle on one of their colleagues, the other railroaders don't like it. It's human nature.

Look I saw a construction crew do something very stupid at Tarrytown when they were installing the temporary overpass. It was a danger to the public using the station. I took a cell phone photo and I emailed Metro-North. They emailed me back that they'd notify the contractor. Make him aware of it.

That was it. I didn't try and go public with it. Nor would I. I don't believe in that.

What the engineer did in the video was wrong. Very wrong. He is lucky nobody got hurt. On the other hand, what the person filming the incident did was wrong too. Instead of videoing it and sending it to the news, he should have contacted Metro-North and let them deal with it.

In today's modern world, everyone and everything is watching. If you do something wrong, chances are you WILL eventually get caught. So how do you avoid getting caught? By doing the correct thing in the first place.

Looking "at the big picture" is very important too. Taking things out of context can be very misleading and cause unnecessary trouble. As Mr. Railnut mentioned earlier, it may look they let a passenger operate train, but it could later be showed that engineer had a student that day. I cannot tell you what was going through the mind of the engineer when he was reading, nor can I tell you what the guy videoing the event was thinking either. Nobody can.

The most important thing needed here is common sense.
If you see something that can potentially threaten life or limb, such as seeing a suspicious-looking package someone left on the train, or looking through the window and seeing the engineer fast asleep on the floor, then tell someone. Don't let this incident make you shy away and go back to your seat hoping someone else will notice. If you are that afraid of getting in trouble for something like that, call 911. They will know how to handle it.

On the other hand, if it is something that will not potentially threaten life or limb, then let Metro-North know later. There is no need to cry to NBC because the engineer didn't blow the horn at the proper time or your train stopped 6 inches further up the platform than it did yesterday. We live in an imperfect world, and everything cannot go exactly as it is supposed to all the time.

This whole fiasco reminds me of the NJT 7277 Sideswipe thread that degraded into the nonsense thread over there. That incident was sort of similar. A passenger on the train heard what he thought to be two trains sideswiping each other one day. Instead of alerting the conductor, he went to Railraod.net and told everybody there. Meanwhile, those two trains could be out roaming around in NJ Transit-land with a dangerous defect that could endanger trainloads of people. Luckily, nobody got hurt. But what could have happened? If there was something severely wrong with the train sets, they could have sideswiped again on another run, but this time, instead of just jolting a couple of people around in their seats, there could have been catastrophic damage to the trains and their passengers. And all of this could have been stopped if the train crew was alerted, the situation checked out, and any potential issue resolved.

So what could have happened here? On Monday that engineer could have been back on on his run, reading his newspaper as usual. But this time there could be someone roaming around on the tracks and instead of noticing and stopping the train in time, he strikes the passenger. Then we are looking at this topic from a whole different point of view. "How could that engineer do that?" "Isn't he supposed to know he should be watching the road?" "Didn't anybody try to stop him?". In a way we are lucky this guy will stop, even though we may not be too pleased with how the discipline came about.

There is no way now to take back whatever has been done with this incident. I cannot magically make everybody who saw this video and heard of this incident forget about it, so we have to deal with what is done. What the engineer did was wrong. What the passenger did was wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right.

In conclusion, I just hope that this incident can serve as an example to everybody out there that the only way to avoid another issue like this is to operate the trains in a safe and correct way, because everyone is watching. I would rather arrive at my station 6 minutes late than not get there at all. Don't break the rules because you need to get back on time or you woke up late and just have to see how the Mets did last night. The rules are there for your safety, my safety, and for the safety of all the passengers as well as the people who live and work around the railroad tracks.

Sending it to the media without first giving Metro North a chance to do something to correct the situation was wrong of the person who posted this video, weather or not this was there intent I don't know they could have just pulled out there phone and used the news stations app to quickly post a video without thinking.

Steamboat Willie wrote:The MNRR M7a's do not have the sliding privacy shade that the LIRR M7's do. This employee who has committed the wrong doing faces extreme disciplinary actions up to and including dismissal with fines of FRA rule violations. And yes, almost all employees are very cautious of any and all film footage any rail enthusiast takes with the intent of posting it on YouTube.

It is very unlikely that the FRA would get involved with such an incident. Only time they would fine an employee would be if they intentionally disabled safety equipment. The FRA lets railroads determine discipline for rules violations (certification does have some guidelines, including alcohol use on duty). Considering the negative publicity that this incident has caused, the consequences will probably be severe.

Tommy Meehan wrote:I hope Noel maybe doesn't reply.

I think most of us know what he means. .

I'm a little lost, as it was a rather general sounding statement that begs questions like "in what regards?" - hence why I thought instead of assuming anything ,and making a response to that, I ask and avoid the risk of sounding like a jackass by jumping the gun.

Jonathan Vigliotti, a writer for NBC New York wrote:Windows into Some Train Cabs Covered After Train Engineer Caught Reading

Days after a train engineer was suspended after he was caught on camera reading while at the controls, NBC 4 New York has found some windows looking into the where the engineers work have been covered up.

...While the MTA condemns driving while distracted, MTA officials say there is nothing wrong with this kind of privacy. In a statement, Metro-North said the company "does not have a policy that either prohibits or encourages train crew members from papering over or otherwise obscuring interior cab windows."...

See the full article here: Windows into Some Train Cabs Covered After Train Engineer Caught Reading
There will be more coverage on this story on WNBC at 11p Saturday.

DutchRailnut wrote:On MNCR the front door of train is emergency exit in tunnels, so blocking the window is a no no,
most M-7a's did get polarized glass where you can only see forward, and not see the engineer.
I expect that MNCR will now remove polarized glass and install original glazing.
I also expect a witch hunt on those that block that glass with posters and duct tape.

Well unless there is more to the story, it seems that either Dutch is mistaken or the MTA is not telling the truth to the media and the public.