Rt 100 Limiteds

Can anyone tell me why there are 14 limited runs from 69th Street to Norristown, but only one limited run from Norristown to 69th Street during weekdays? Seems a little lopsided to me.

Because many more people catch the P&W at 69th st than at any other station. They break the volume into three categories. The limiteds allow people to hit only the stops with connections to other lines. The locals serve the nearer half of the system, and the expresses serve the further half.

Thanks for the reply, although don't they have to go back eventually, as well?

The Limiteds do comeback to 69th St as Limiteds.

SEPTALRV9072 wrote:The Limiteds do come back (comeback) to 69th St as Limiteds.

Don't you mean as expresses or locals? The schedule shows cars arriving in Norristown as limiteds matched a few minutes later by return trips as one of the other modes.

Of course the double track at the Norristown TC allows cars to lay over so there's no guarantee that a particular inbound run uses the car that arrived most recently as a limited. Still the trips have to balance out by the end of the day.

The vast majority of traffic on the P&W is in and out of 69th st. In the morning, people who work in the suburbs pile onto the trolley in large numbers. Cars of any kind tend to leave packed to the gills. City workers on the other hand get on a few (to be fair some stops can have 2 dozen people) at each stop. and the cars arrive at 69th st. full. In the evening the situation is the same, city workers packing cars outbound, suburban workers boarding all along the line. The limiteds serve the portion of outbound traffic that need to make connections to buses at Ardmore Junction, Radnor, Gulph Mills, and Norristown. They exist entirely to distribute connecting riders. On the return trip, boardings are much less concentrated, and limiteds are not as needed.

Funny thing is, with this new schedule, there seems to be no way to get from a Zone 1 local stop to a Zone 2 local stop, or vice versa, during rush hour, without switching cars at an express stop. (Wonder if they'd accept a transfer for that?) Probably not much demand though.

tinmad dog wrote:Funny thing is, with this new schedule, there seems to be no way to get from a Zone 1 local stop to a Zone 2 local stop, or vice versa, during rush hour, without switching cars at an express stop. (Wonder if they'd accept a transfer for that?)

Yes. In fact, that's how it's done--the transfer is punched up as a fare receipt (for the proper zone fare paid) and is good for travel on the next car.

Matthew Mitchell wrote:Yes. In fact, that's how it's done--the transfer is punched up as a fare receipt (for the proper zone fare paid) and is good for travel on the next car.

Yep, even in the good old Red Arrow days you had to switch cars. There's no other way to handle overlaps. The practice Matt described has been in use for as long as I can remember.

The only somewhat irrational aspect to this system is that if you have a CTD Transpass and want to go from, say Penfield to Norristown, the car change at Bryn Mawr means your trip consists of 2 separate one-zone boardings. Each leg is covered by the pass even though the full trip is across 2 zones. But if you're taking a shorter trip from 69th St. to Rosemont with no car change, that counts a two-zone ride and Transpass holders have to pay an extra 50 cents.

The situation doesn't affect many riders, and it's basically no different from taking a bus and switching to the subway in the city when using a pass, but it's still a bit counterintuitive.

Ardmore Junction was mentioned.
What's this a junction with? A trolley line?

It's not the old line to Strafford is it? (I doubt it)

AlexC wrote:Ardmore Junction was mentioned.
What's this a junction with? A trolley line?

I don't know for sure, but I'd wager that it's like Holmesburg Junction and Frankford Junction: a station that in a decent mass transit system would serve two rail lines, but under SEPTA serves only one.

AlexC wrote:Ardmore Junction was mentioned.
What's this a junction with? A trolley line?

Ardmore Junction is where the Rt. 100 crosses the busway that used to be the Ardmore trolley and is now the 103 bus.

Ardmore Junction was mentioned.
What's this a junction with? A trolley line?

It's not the old line to Strafford is it? (I doubt it)

That splits off at Villanova. Heading towards Norristown as the car goes around the sharp curve you can see the line of the ROW going straight ahead.

Really its just called Ardmore Junction to prevent confusion between it and the next stop, Ardmore Ave. The street (Merwood Rd.) it crosses isn't major enough to warrant naming thestation after it. The 103 bus (formerly trolley) does cross under it. From Darby Rd. to about County Line, the 103 is a shining example of the wonders of Bus Rapid Transit, running on a dedicated busway, with 4 designated stations with old Red Arrow style brick shelters.

As for the Strafford Line, its a shame the Blue Route cut it off, as the right of way was almost completely intact, bridges and all. It is now a bike trail from St Davids to Strafford. The biggest problem wast that along the entire route it passed much closer behind houses than rest of the P&W. The Bike trail has high fences to seperate yards from the trail. The concrete supports for the stations are still in place, as is the tranformer building on Conestoga Rd. Driving through there, I never fail to see many people using the trail.

tinmad dog wrote:... 4 designated stations with old Red Arrow style brick shelters

A bit of Googling found this nice pic: http://www.jerryapp.com/arcv2/ja-t062.jpg