We've gotten away from the original post's question about what is the new RAILROAD fare colletion procedure that might get implemented, and mcmannors's answer that the only thing they're aware of is doing away with some on board surcharge waivers.
We've even gotten off of the subsidiary discussion about dinosaurs and large flightless birds.
Well, lemme join the crowd
sixty-six wrote:
Random sweeps of 12-car trains during rush hour? Riiiiight...
I'm not sure why 12-car rush hour train random sweeps has to be any less effective than traditional railroad style where conductors try to lift every ticket.
amtrakowitz wrote:
POP is very much the "honor system". The only way you can say it is not is if fare agents are present on the system at all times, checking all passengers; they are not.
You're welcome to your opinion, but please state it as an opinion and not as fact. I believe what you're saying is the same as if one would say "Stopping at red light is honor system. The only way you can say it is not is if police are at every intersection at all times". Substitute any other scenario where one must balance one's chances of getting away with wrongdoing vs the possibly severe punishment if one gets caught.
amtrakowitz wrote:
Germany, long famed for the proof-of-payment system on almost all of its public transit, is suffering from a high level of fare evasion currently.
Please cite the documentation you have to support this statement. And it seems you're implying that traditional methods, eg faregates, turnstiles, have less fare evasion than proof of payment system. That may be, but I don't believe they result in zero fare evasion. If there's frequent enough enforcement, with high enough fines, proof of payment's revenue vs cost can be as effective as the old fashioned way.
Nexis4Jersey wrote:
and where do you see conductors on Trolleys? In Philly? Boston? No , you don't see them , they collect there fares when you board.
...
Several stations on the Newark LRT can be fitted with fare gates , some even have there historic fare gates..
Several stations in Philly, Boston have fare gates, besides the stations in Newark to which you allude which historically had faregates. And San Francisco, Toronto, and if I remember correctly, Cleveland's Terminal Tower Shaker Heights Rapid Transit station.
And I had seen portable fareboxes without gates at some Pittsburgh light rail stations.
I believe Los Angeles subway had been proof of payment, and they have changed to faregates
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/los-ange ... crazy.html
Faregates can give more bang for the buck on a subway-elevated system, since the platforms already have restricted entry points, than one can get on a more open right of way, such as light rail or traditional railroad, where it's a lot harder completely to fence in all the ways one can walk up to the trains.
nick11a wrote:
This is a pointless conversation.... anyone reading this knows that these ideas are not nearly practical.
I assume, like what I believe sixty-six is trying to say, that you feel traditional railroad style fare collection is any more practical. It all depends on lots of variables. As I mentioned above, one needs to get that magic balance of cost vs revenue vs evasion.
Here's another fun thing about proof of payment. When I get off the Riverline, I toss my validated ticket into the recycle bin as soon as I can. I don't want inadvertently to reach into my pocket later and innocently double stamp an already expired ticket. It's possible, I know, that someone else might get that ticket from the recycle bin and get a free ride. Where does my responsibility as an honest citizen end, am I supposed to keep that ticket and dispose of it in a way that noone can reuse it?
