Surviving equipment

Funny you should mention Mr. Ford.

Some of his photos have been posted to rrpicturearchives.net. Due to their exceptional quality and seemingly unusual foreknowledge of special trains some of us who saw these pictures assumed that "Gil Ford" was a pseudonym for someone who had worked for Guilford Transportation. Some of the photos posted on there are among the only known public photos of MEC #333 LONE TREE in the modern era and likely its last known use right around the time of the GTI purchase.

sandyriverman wrote:Can you, or anyone else point me to other places where there may be identifiable photos of any of these cars, or any written history of any of the cars? i don't want to give this up until I figure out what cars were used where, and maybe where they went later on.

rrpicturearchives.net is probably one good option. The other would be the Passenger Car Photo Index but their listings of Maine Central equipment tend to be thin.

In general photos of Maine Central equipment are very hard to find. However, lately, in particular the last two or three years have seen a dramatic improvement in availability. When I started looking for MEC passenger cars a few years ago I could barely find more than a few dozen now there are hundreds out there and always more to be found if you search long enough and hard enough.

sandyriverman wrote:In the Liljestrand and Sweetser book it gives a different roster of MEC passenger cars.

Just a quick clarification: I presume you refer to Robert A. Liljestrand and David R. Sweetland?

gokeefe wrote:CONFIRMED- FOUND! MEC #16 Arundel, Hancock Port Commission, Gulfport, MS, Stored - Out of Service.

The following message was received from the Webmaster at icrr.net.

As far as I know, the car is still behind the pharmaceutical company and still belongs to the port commission who I believe own the building and spur.

I went back through this thread and realized that I had never posted the satellite photos I had seen of this car. Much to my delight the views in Google Maps have improved significantly since I last checked. Here is the best shot of ex-MEC#16 ARUNDEL I was able to get.

I would appreciate any impressions or analysis that anyone has about this car including whether or not window and vestibule configurations match or are close to what they should look like.

Although I am reluctant to claim it is "FOUND" I did recently 'discover' for myself that MEC #352/ex-MEC #411 a 1914 Laconia built baggage express car is on the roster at the Railroad Museum of New England (RMNE) and is currently under restoration.

Photos of "Arundel" as is, where is, in Gulf Port, MIssissippi.

http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.ph ... 69#p211869" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RGlueck wrote:Photos of "Arundel" as is, where is, in Gulf Port, MIssissippi.

http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.ph ... 69#p211869" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dick,

First and foremost thank you for an absolutely magnificent contribution to the thread.

I am simply astounded to think that a genuine Maine Central streamliner survives somewhere in something even close to resembling intact condition. The original Phase II Amtrak signage and paint scheme is impressive in its own right and may be one of the best surviving examples of an intact Phase II paint scheme on a Heritage fleet car.

Based on the research available this is almost certainly the one and only surviving lightweight Maine Central passenger car of any type. Furthermore these are probably the first photographs of this car made public since it left service with Amtrak (about 37 years ago now). This is truly an exceptional find in many respects and the photos are in of themselves extraordinary.

Thank you so very much for taking the time to cross post this thread to the Railway Preservation News forums and to inquire regarding photographs.

Were the MEC 333 and 322 placed outside when PAR acquired the
CSRX FP9s to become PAR1 and PAR2, so as to provide inside
space to store PAR 1&2 undercover?

Possibly PAR has put these cars on the "insiders" market, but
had no takers at the requested sale price. At any rate, leaving
these cars outside will surely lead to their demise eventually. I
did not win the Mega-Millions this week, so I can't move them
to the Conway Scenic in a newly built storage building, along
with the MEC RPO already at North Conway. Probably should
plan on a bay for the MEC 501, also.

Dick,

MEC #333 Lone Tree is stored inside and has been "caught" outside by Sam only once that I am aware of. My impression is that the company understands its importance quite well. MEC #322 although clearly very historic in its own right by no means is of equivalent stature. Given that it probably does not have the same wood paneling once described in MEC #333 (Peruvian Mahogany at that) I wouldn't be as concerned about the potential for water damage.

Here's a thought. Assuming (always dangerous to assume) that the AAPRCO
convention does take place in Portland in September (at last report, not all
agreements with the various railroads involved in the routing from Chicago
were finalized), maybe Mr. Fink #2 will give the private car owners a tour
of the #333 Lone Tree, either at Waterville or maybe even move it to Portland.
One of the group might have his checkbook in hand....

Dick,

That would be quite impressive indeed if it happened. Even a move of the car from Waterville to Portland would/should attract some interest from the enthusiast community.

On second thought, disregard my "checkbook" comment,
as I would hate to see this car leave Northern New Englnd.
As long as it is owned by PAR, there is still the chance that
it might end up on the Conway Scenic, Maine Eastern or
the Downeast Scenic. The Naugy or the Valley in CT would
also be interested under the right circumstances.

Comment disregarded!

Indeed I think PAR has done everyone quite the favor by a) keeping #333 indoors all these years and b) not selling it to the highest bidder (of which I would imagine there may have been a few).

Everything I have ever read about the car makes me think its quite the gem on the inside.

Here is an updated roster based on the original post:

MEC #16, Diner - Lounge, Arundel, Hancock Port Commission, Gulfport, MS, Stored - Out of Service

MEC #155, Coach, McNeil Point, Downeast Scenic Railroad, Ellsworth, ME, Restored - Operating.

MEC #252, Coach (MEC #2011, Instruction Car, ex-MEC #209), Conway Scenic Railroad, North Conway, NH, Stored - Static. Also of note, per reliable sources this car is not on its original trucks. They were switched out and placed under CSRX Gertrude Emma.

MEC #333, Business Observation, Lone Tree, Pan Am Railways, Waterville, ME, Stored (Indoors) - Static. (Lone Tree has been the subject of an ongoing thread for some time on railroad.net here)

MEC #322, Power Car Combine, Pan Am Railways, Waterville, ME, Stored (Outdoors) - Static.

MEC #390, Coach (AMTK #5444, PC #4044, PRR #4044), Pan Am Railways(?), Waterville, ME, Out of Service - Unknown. (Further research appears to indicate this car did not ever belong to the MEC during their passenger service era, MEC #390 (exxx-PRR 4044) was built for and saw service on the PRR train Southwind).

MEC #391, Chair - Cafe - Foodservice (Buffet?) (MEC #391, AMTK #3951, PC(?) #3211, NYC #3211, NYC #3011), City Point Central Railroad, Belfast, ME, Preserved - Static(?). (This coach also never operated on the MEC during their passenger service era, according to Bruce Cooper (as posted on NE Rail Photo) its heritage is AMTK #3951, NYC #3211, NYC #3011). Part of a 153 car order for 64 seat coaches by the NYC in 1948 to Pullman Standard (Plan #7484, Lot #2169, some others indicate Lot #6721).

MEC #409, Railway Post Office, Conway Scenic Railroad, North Conway, NH, Stored - Static. (Used as tool car by CSRX, interior condition unknown, wood exterior)

ADDED MEC #411, Railway Post Office (ex-PC, exx-NH W331 (MoW) exxx-NH, exxxx-MEC #352), Railroad Museum of New England, Stored - Under Restoration (steel exterior)

MEC #501, Combine, Cooperville & Marne Railway Company, Marne, MI, Stored - Static. (Interior photos show this car to be largely intact and in excellent shape). This car was also at one time in service on the "Otter Valley Railroad Tourist Train" in Proctor, Vermont. Other information seems to indicate it was part of the Steamtown Inc. collection at one time (supposedly on loan from MEC, not owned by Steamtown). It was also at one time in the collection of the 470 RR Club as well.

MEC #540, Lumber King, Baggage Coach, (MP #761, MP #562, Grill Coach), Kennekuk County Park, Danville, IL, Preserved - Static. (scroll to bottom of page on Danville, IL link).

MEC #573, EMD GP7 with steam generator for passenger service; known around the railroad as Mr. Miller's Engine; later became DH 573, then ST 27; now preserved and in service as CSRX 573.

MEC #901, MoW Coach (BAR #230), Shelburne Falls Trolley Museum, Shelburne, MA, Stored - Static is not discussed in this post due to the fact that is was never in passenger service (public or private (business)).

Perhaps more importantly, here is what I am working on for leads:

MEC(?) #170(?), Coach, Mountainview: Last known location, North Conway, NH in 1979. Unknown if numbering ("170") and lettering ("Maine Central") are historically accurate for this car. Further complicating things is the fact that this car in this configuration has never previously been documented elsewhere. Also, at that time "Maine Central" lettering was not necessarily 'historical' as the MEC was still in operation. Therefore this car may have actually still been in MEC ownership and operation at the time. This sighting coincides roughly with a number of known trips up the Mountain Division by the MEC business train (#333, #322, and #390 and/or others). Another aspect of this find is the extremely unusual practice of naming the car (possibly in MoW service at that) which is one factor potentially indicating private ownership.

MEC #241, Coach, Webhannet: This car has a very unsual listing as "Ferrocarril del Pacifico #1958" (a Nacionales de Mexico predecessor) with an accompanying photo. I am requesting information regarding the reference for this car from the Passenger Car Photo Index webmaster. A check of the master rosters at the Pullman project gives no indication of Webhannet operating on FCP. In general information about Missouri Pacific's disposition of the ex-Maine Central Pullman Standard cars is very thin. I am also requesting information from the Missouri Pacific Historical Society regarding these cars.

Other than the above two leads I have no other active lines of research right now. Here are some of the cars which I was able to trace briefly but came up as dead ends (for now...):

MEC #15 Merrymeeting: no further information after Amtrak ownership. Assumed disposed during Heritage fleet sales in 1978.

MEC #541 Forest Queen: no further information after Missouri Pacific ownership.

There was one Missouri Pacific stainless steel coach, photographed intact in 1988 on a siding in Bracken, TX. This photo is listed at the bottom of a roster on the Screaming Eagles website. The car is potentially of MEC heritage. If it is some of the streamlining is missing next to the vestibule trap. Otherwise the car would appear to be a possible candidate for an ex-MEC coach. Absent a discovery of intact coaches in Mexico my instinct is that the above two are among the two most likely survivors of MEC's Pullman Standard streamliners. Another foreign dead end was something I worked on initially and without any luck was for MEC #180-189 which had a note regarding "ex-RDG 1946, sold to Korea in 1957" on Mr. VanBokkelen's roster.

The Passenger Car Photo Index also has the following:

MEC #413, Railway Post Office, however it is in terrible condition. It is indexed on the fallen flags site under Penn Central which would match the history of its better preserved cousin (MEC #411, RPO) at the RMNE/NAUG. The year given for the photo is 1982. Location is not clear at all.

I continue to see improvements in the amount of information available about this subject. In a marked contrast to the usual trends prior to the advent of the Internet the quality of data is actually improving over time as opposed to degrading due to loss and deterioration of documents, archives, photographs and memories. The durability of information posted on the Internet is quite remarkable and I enjoy the challenge that finding these relatively "rare" pieces of equipment presents. In general Maine Central passenger rolling stock is extremely difficult to track due in part to the railroad's early termination of all passenger service and the small size of their passenger fleet. Any discussion, additional information and further research is greatly appreciated. At least for the moment I believe there are still several intact ex-MEC cars "out there" waiting to be found.