Wraps

http://64.78.30.219/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1175

I came across this thread in the MBTA forum regaurding wrapped trolleys on their system.

A) How come SEPTA hasn't thought of this as an increased advertising revenue?

B) If they have, why don't they do this? There seems to be enough lines running through the city to generate some good money.

A) How come SEPTA hasn't thought of this as an increased advertising revenue?

SEPTA does put wraps on buses. They could definetly put them on more, and I don't know why they haven't, but it is certainly something they've looked at and tried.

I have seen the wraps on busses. Some of them look so weak (such as not covering the WHOLE bus) you want to ask SEPTA what exactly they were thinking.

What I want to know is, why haven't the trolleys been given a chance to earn some more money?

A couple of reasons. First of all, the fleet is relatively small and it runs in a fixed area. Advertising on busses is a wierd thing; you pay your money for a set amount of time and unless that bus is "rented" at the end of that time, your ad will stay up for an indefinite period. The apeal of advertising on a bus is that it will circulate in a known area. The most attractive advertising is on busses that will circulate in the CBD (Center City) and the trolleys as we know, are underground in the CBD. That makes the advertising less apealing and pushes demand way down for it. Why pay all the money for a rolling billboard when it will be hidden from view during its journey through the most densely packed area of the city?

This is my long way of saying that SEPTA doesn't necessarially prevent trolleywraps, but that the demand is not as high.

Good point about them running in the tunnel. But, they also have lots and lots of street running as well.

Maybe running wrapped PCC IIs or LRVs on the new 15?

Plus, don't forget that the 23 runs through some of the busiest sections of CC. ... But, no trolleys on that line.

queenlnr8 wrote:Good point about them running in the tunnel. But, they also have lots and lots of street running as well.

It's a question of economics. Where downtown buses run, people have disposable income that will make advertising effective (you see the ad, you buy the product). In parts of Philadelphia where the streetcars run, there is very little disposable income and less liklihood that advertising will lead to increases of sales. There is the possibility that it will work in Overbrook or Spruce Hill, but those are relatively small neighborhoods in the grand scheme of the SS routes.

Maybe running wrapped PCC IIs or LRVs on the new 15?

Might work, especially since it will connect Overbrook, where there is money, with some neighborhoods like Northern Liberties where money is reappearing.

Plus, don't forget that the 23 runs through some of the busiest sections of CC. ... But, no trolleys on that line.

Don't quit dreaming -- don't let SEPTA beat you! Trolleys may yet return, especially if the 15 proves to be much more successful as a trolley than a bus (which we all know it probably will).

Good point about vehicle circulation. In Boston, the wrapped trolleys on the MBTA run on such a heavily travelled Green Line that they get good ad exposure even below ground, and above ground they can be seen on teh Charles River viaduct, and on crowded streets in wealthy Brookline, through Boston University and Northeastern University, and out to Boston College (shameless alma mater plug). And, as if it wasn't obvious that the route is full of college students, most of the wraps (recently) have been by Bacardi...and now Coors Light is getting up there too.

As for buses, you don't see many wrapped buses of late here in Boston. They went crazy with wraps at frist, but that was before the bottom fell out of the economy.

As for Route 15 restoration, I hope that it provides an example of how well light rail service can improve a route elsewhere too. I'd love for a successful 15 to demonstrate to Boston and the MBTA how to do a couple of our projects (the Silver Line BRT, Arborway light rail restoration) as rail and no more BRT. Okay, time to put the soapbox away...

If Septa really wanted to increase advertising revenue, there are a number of things they could do currently which would not require the institution of a new service (like trolley-wraps). For example, when I showed up in Phialdelphia as an incoming freshman from Portland, OR two and a half years ago, one thing struck me about Septa immediately (and I continue to notice on a daily basis): Septa (and Philadelphia as a whole, I might add) seems to keep outdated advertisements up longer than ANY city I've ever seen. One example that sticks out in my mind was an ad for the movie "Deliver Us From Eva" with LL Cool J. The movie opened Feb. 7, 2003, but there were still ads in the 40th St. El station (my closest rail transit station, the next closest being the 36th & Sansom Subway-Surface station) this past winter--possibly as late as November, if I recall correctly--that still read "In theaters this February." These ads were put up in December '02 or January '03. People seeing these ads in late '03 would think the movie was coming out Feb 7, 2004! This is just one example of a problem running rampant throughout Septa's system. They leave the ads up FOREVER. In the case of movie posters, often they are advertising a film that is long since gone from theaters. If they would be more attentive to their advertising, they could easily increase revenue markedly.

On an unrelated note about ads, I shudder every time I see one of the "Shop 69th Street" ads on the El or busses which have the slogan "Where it's all at!" bl

I would say that these are all great ideas, but SEPTA does not control the advertising on it's system.

SEPTA has a set contract with Viacom Outdoor which manages advertising , and gives SEPTA a share of the revenue. (BTW...this is the way most transit systems manage advertising)

In this case, the problems seem to lie with Viacom Outdoor, not SEPTA.

This link has more information about Viacom Outdoor.

http://www.viacomoutdoor.com/market.php?marketId=109

Please everyone, don't give SEPTA ideas about putting wraps on the PCC's!!!

I personally don't like the wraps when Im actually on the bus. Really impedes your view, although sometimes there's not much to see. I really noticed it when I rode the Riverline and our car had a wrap on it. Ruined my opportunity to take pictures during my ride : (

Um, unless you have forgotten, SEPTA isn't in the business of catering to the railfans who want to snap photos along the ride or have perfect, historically accurate vehicles. They are in the business of moving people and making money along the way.

I say, if someone offers to PAY them MONEY to wrap a PCC II, GO FOR IT. That money could someday pave the way for other lines to be reinstated, cars to be refurbished, stations to be rehabilitated and fares to be lowered.

This is a fact of life. If you want better service and not a cow and pony show with an expiration date, you have to live with wrapped PCC IIs and 'Station Domination.'

queenlnr8 wrote:Um, unless you have forgotten, SEPTA isn't in the business of catering to the railfans who want to snap photos along the ride or have perfect, historically accurate vehicles. They are in the business of moving people and making money along the way.

I agree with most of what you posted save this bit. SEPTA is NOT in the buisness of making money. They are simply charged with providing public transportation to the citizens of the five southeastern counties of Pennsylvania.

now, perhaps they should be charged with providing fast or convenient or frequent or some other type of service, but if someone gets it in their head that they will be providing profitable service, we're going to loose a lot of service real quick.[/u][/i]

Well, I meant making money in the sense that they need operating revenue, rather then profiting from transporting the masses. No company can make a profit while transporting the masses and lowest common denominator.

jsc wrote:The most attractive advertising is on busses that will circulate in the CBD (Center City) and the trolleys as we know, are underground in the CBD. That makes the advertising less apealing and pushes demand way down for it. Why pay all the money for a rolling billboard when it will be hidden from view during its journey through the most densely packed area of the city?

You should also factor in the fact that between 15 and 30 Sts, people riding the El will also be seeing these wraps on the trolleys as well. And the El within the tunnel is probably the busiest section of the line.

I really noticed it when I rode the Riverline and our car had a wrap on it. Ruined my opportunity to take pictures during my ride

Some of NJT's commuter trains have wraps on them also.

I personally have no problem with them if they are bringing in revenue—they can wrap all the buses, trains and LRVs they want so long as they don't cut service and at least start expanding...