• Would You Give Up Your Auto?

  • General discussion of passenger rail proposals and systems not otherwise covered in the specific forums in this category, including high speed rail.
General discussion of passenger rail proposals and systems not otherwise covered in the specific forums in this category, including high speed rail.

Moderators: mtuandrew, gprimr1

  by daybeers
 
eolesen wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:30 pm
photobug56 wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 7:56 pm few people can afford two cars
Vehicle ownership data indicates otherwise.... I'm sure in some congested areas like NYC, owning more than one car becomes prohibitive between parking and insurance, but certainly everywhere I've lived over the last 40 years, having two cars was more or less the minimum.
Doesn't mean it's affordable.
  by photobug56
 
if you live in the 'burbs'.
  by eolesen
 
daybeers wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:42 pm Doesn't mean it's affordable.
Uh, no, that's exactly what it means -- 60% of households have two or more cars because they can afford it. Statistically, there are more cars per household than there are drivers per household...

The 30% of households with only one car are somewhat evenly split between single adult households and senior citizens who don't work thus don't need anything more than something to go do errands.

Per 2019 data, 91.3% of households have access to at least one car. In NYC, that number is 31% because of the factors I mentioned, mainly the cost of auto insurance.

Those numbers are also exactly why long distance rail in general is a lost cause, but shorter distance rail centered on NYC is wildly successful.
  by daybeers
 
Automobiles are incredibly subsidized in the U.S. That's why auto ownership is so prevalent. Owning and maintaining a car is actually really expensive. Just because there are lots of cars doesn't mean people aren't taking out bad loans and living paycheck to paycheck just so they can have a semblance of a transportation system. It doesn't work.
  by west point
 
I was almost ready to give up my back up car today. It had the first ever failure today after 220,000 miles. cause still unknown.
  by HenryAlan
 
eolesen wrote: Thu Mar 10, 2022 12:33 am
daybeers wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:42 pm Doesn't mean it's affordable.
Uh, no, that's exactly what it means -- 60% of households have two or more cars because they can afford it.
Which means 40% of households can't afford 2 cars. That's substantial, it is not something to simply cast aside as irrelevant to this discussion.
  by eolesen
 
Nice try, but you have to look at the demographics of that 40%. A significant number of those have only one driver, thus no need for two cars....

If you'd like to disprove that regarding the 40%, go for it. The data on drivers per household and cars per household speak very clearly -- Americans own more cars per household than there are licensed drivers per household. They're not giving up paying rent to own their cars, thus it's..... affordable.
  by daybeers
 
"They're not giving up paying rent to own their cars, thus it's..... affordable."
[citation needed]
  by HenryAlan
 
eolesen wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 11:37 am Nice try, but you have to look at the demographics of that 40%. A significant number of those have only one driver, thus no need for two cars....

If you'd like to disprove that regarding the 40%, go for it. The data on drivers per household and cars per household speak very clearly -- Americans own more cars per household than there are licensed drivers per household. They're not giving up paying rent to own their cars, thus it's..... affordable.
When you start with a smirky "nice try, but," and end with a demand that somebody else research your uncited data, you are telling everybody here that you aren't actually looking to discuss and learn. So no, I won't do your work for you, you want to prove the claim, do so, otherwise we will all just ignore you.
  by eolesen
 
Nah, it's just an observation that I put more effort into my response than you did, which was apparently little to none.

I already stated "The 30% of households with only one car are somewhat evenly split between single adult households and senior citizens who don't work thus don't need anything more than something to go do errands."

Feel free to disprove that with something other than snarky commentary. There's lots of relevant data on car ownership and household drivers.
  by NHV 669
 
daybeers wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 12:46 pm "They're not giving up paying rent to own their cars, thus it's..... affordable."
[citation needed]
A citation for your several of your own claims wouldn't hurt either, especially since they're anecdotal at best.

You already tried to generalize the entire country's ownership of automobiles with a rather lousy analogy that fails to apply to most demographics without useful public transit, which is a rather large portion of the US.
  by eolesen
 
If we have to cite sources, then just about every claim and argument made FOR expandit rail and mass transit will fail...


Here are publicly available citations for the raw data.

US Census American Community Survey Table CP04

US Census American Fact Finder Table QT-04

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

  by wally
 
daybeers wrote: Thu Mar 10, 2022 9:46 am Automobiles are incredibly subsidized in the U.S. That's why auto ownership is so prevalent. Owning and maintaining a car is actually really expensive. Just because there are lots of cars doesn't mean people aren't taking out bad loans and living paycheck to paycheck just so they can have a semblance of a transportation system. It doesn't work.

it depends on the choices people make in regards to their transportation needs. i’m not wealthy, i do not live “paycheck to paycheck”, and i own, maintain, and drive 7 vehicles, all of which i own outright. the newest is a 1989. i would hop in any one of them, except for my dodge dump truck (1948), and be confident that i could travel from new england to the west coast with no issues. i could drive the dodge, but the 5 mpg would make it prohibitively expensive to do so.

there is zero readily available public transportation where i live. while rural, it is not the boonies. owning a vehicle is not a luxury here; it’s a need.
  by frequentflyer
 
Short answer, No. Next question.

Love how these news articles and editorials give the impression their thinking is the majority. Like the news articles from a couple of years ago about millennials not wanting to own a car or drive. Lo and Behold another article recently comes out and quotes a survey that showed the opposite.
  by photobug56
 
If I was still living in Manhattan and if it was easy to rent a car (and affordable) when I needed one, I probably wouldn't own a car. Living on Long Island, we need multiple cars to get anywhere. Everything is at least a mile away in areas where walking or biking is not very safe.