• Would You Give Up Your Auto?

  • General discussion of passenger rail proposals and systems not otherwise covered in the specific forums in this category, including high speed rail.
General discussion of passenger rail proposals and systems not otherwise covered in the specific forums in this category, including high speed rail.

Moderators: mtuandrew, gprimr1

  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Anyone care to forward this entire topic to that Swedish girl, so that she could see what. even in a universe of mass transit advocates as exists at this site, she is up against "preaching" in the USA.

https://fridaysforfuture.org/
  by Pensyfan19
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:33 pm Anyone care to forward this entire topic to that Swedish girl, so that she could see what. even in a universe of mass transit advocates as exists at this site, she is up against "preaching" in the USA.

https://fridaysforfuture.org/
Although it may be difficult to convince the car-addicted United States of Automobiles to utilize cleaner forms of "socialist" forms of transport, I will still not give up all hope, as there seems to be more of a push for rail transport in numerous regions around the country (despite the NIMBYs and freeway advocating politicians). It's what I've been doing with my youtube channel and with a rail-based club I formed in college.
  by photobug56
 
It would help if passenger and commuter rail didn't compete for worst and slowest possible service. Amtrak management over time has made numerous efforts towards mediocrity, sometimes pushed by politics, sometimes not. But commuter rail is the true horror show. LIRR, aka the Long Island H-ll Road, Snail Road, Fail Road, etc., prides itself on how slow it is (in one instance, at least 90 minutes to go 40 miles - if something doesn't break down), plus train cars designed to be painful. It's a good bet that there are other bad ones out there, including MNCC.
  by John_Perkowski
 
If there was, as there is in Chicago, timely rail service on each of the spokes leaving downtown, I could commute to downtown. There isn’t. I can’t.
  by photobug56
 
On Long Island, if you need to commute to a job in West Chester, or other points north of NYC, you have 2 choices; 1. drive (not fun, not healthy), or 2. take LIRR into NYP - one to three trains, 2 subway rides to get to GCT, then the next northbound MNCR train that goes to your destination. For me to get to my most recent job, which moved to White Plains, is, on a good day, at least 6 hours round trip. By car about 3 hours round trip rush hour (depending on timing). Distance about 60 miles each way if you drive. That mass transit takes at least twice as long is disgusting and short sighted. Someday, if ESA is ever completed, MAYBE 5 plus hours for the round trip - on a good day. Mass transit in NYC Metro is only good if you are going to / from one hub. If you are going point to point on Long Island, you can spend 2 or 3 hours each way on busses - if they are running, and assuming they go somewhere near your origin and destination.

What's particularly scary is that no major government entity cares even a little about improving this.
  by west point
 
If MNRR ever travels on the west side then you might have that as an alternate if going on the Hudson line?
  by photobug56
 
It would still be at least 5 hours. LIRR is super slow. Fastest train I know of officially takes 62 minutes for 40 miles. Reverse same equipment PM about 72 minutes. Miss that, and there's a connection that on a good day takes 90 minutes. Reminds me of the steamer in Petticoat Junction.

What you need, and it wouldn't be cheap but would be worth it, is a direct, easy connection via the Hellgate from Jamaica to the various MNCR lines, thus not going to a Manhattan hub at all. But MTA has zero interest in even talking about this. Reminds me of how airlines used to prefer their hub and spoke arrangements. But for a daily commute, the Manhattan hub is a killer when you are going between east and north of NYC.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Mr. Bug, I must wonder if there is a "reasonable and practical" way to addresses your concern, for which I believe is fair and reasonable.

First problem is how will an LIRR train access HGB; the train would need be diesel powered (LIRR has 'em) and would need to reverse direction at Harold. Talk about tying up one busy chunk of railroad!!!!

Now to build the infrastructure so that Westbound LIRR could access Eastward (TT; compass North) Amtrak over the HGB and on to Westchester and Fairfield stations would just be unthinkable. Even though the $6.1B appropriated for rail under IIJA22, seems like a good chunk (and even the possibility, but I fear not likely when the Republicans take over Jan '23, the authorization for more results in appropriations), there are simply higher priority projects to address. So I think you best be prepared to accept "it's the Throg's Neck and the 95" so long as you are with your present outfit.

Oh, and WAAAY OT, since the New York area traffic reporters (at least the stations - WCBS and WINS - I listen to when I'm out) seem to have "initialized" all the bridges, e.g. GWB, GMC (formerly TZB), RFK (Triboro), BWB (Whitestone), et al. How do they address the Throg's Neck?

Finally, overseas there is the same issue. All their rail systems over there except Germany (probably account Hitler being attached to Bavaria and the postwar division) converge upon the Capital. How many Brits residing in, say, Manchester and wanting to go to, say, Plymouth must wonder "why must I go to London (likely change stations) first?".

Easier just to get on the Motorway and pay $7.00/ga for "Petrol".
  by daybeers
 
European rail systems are working on improving their hub-and-spoke model, especially France with slower speed rail and England with HS2, which will increase capacity on smaller lines substantially. I don't think it's a fair comparison to disorganized and mismanaged LIRR and MTA.

I imagine the Interborough Express will help with connections like going from Long Island to north of NYC, but yes, the point still stands that LIRR is very slow.
  by photobug56
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 9:37 am Mr. Bug, I must wonder if there is a "reasonable and practical" way to addresses your concern, for which I believe is fair and reasonable.
Keep in mind the point of the thread. If you want us to use cars less, we need to address the gaps in mass transit, and in the NYC Metro area, this is a major gap, leaving people to have to drive. If you want to fix this, it won't be easy, but could take a fair number of cars off the road PLUS open up jobs at a given location to a lot more people. But it would be a big break in how MTA has 'worked', and money and complexities aside, that's an organization that's as open to change as a sloth. MTA board members are not picked for their intelligence, willingness to find better ways to do things, but rather for their loyalty to whoever the current bosses are - and whoever those bosses owe their jobs to.
Last edited by nomis on Tue Feb 08, 2022 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total. Reason: Truncated quote
  by photobug56
 
daybeers wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 12:25 pm European rail systems are working on improving their hub-and-spoke model, especially France with slower speed rail and England with HS2, which will increase capacity on smaller lines substantially. I don't think it's a fair comparison to disorganized and mismanaged LIRR and MTA.

I imagine the Interborough Express will help with connections like going from Long Island to north of NYC, but yes, the point still stands that LIRR is very slow.
The mythical IB express may or may not ever happen, may or may not include Da Bronx. NYC area politicians are now trying to block the MNCR connection to Penn Station because it doesn't include new Queens stations. Between NIMBY's and the GIMME-MY-SHARE's and the massive featherbedding and other shenanigans it's hard to get anything done. But lots of these things are badly needed to get drivers to use mass transit.
  by electricron
 
photobug56 wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 5:10 pm The mythical IB express may or may not ever happen, may or may not include Da Bronx. NYC area politicians are now trying to block the MNCR connection to Penn Station because it doesn't include new Queens stations. Between NIMBY's and the GIMME-MY-SHARE's and the massive featherbedding and other shenanigans it's hard to get anything done. But lots of these things are badly needed to get drivers to use mass transit.
Politics, especially from the nearby neighborhoods, gums up the works!
Not exclusive to New York City, it is seen worldwide in democracies.
  by BandA
 
I think the solution is not to give up your automobile, but to get insurance that charges a reasonable price per mile. Then you can have your cake and eat it too; your Chevy Suburban for the vacation trip and your Nissan Leaf for the frequent short trips, with fast energy efficient public transportation such as Trackless Trolleys to downtown (with in-motion charging battery to extend range beyond wires). Reform transit fares so that Commuter Rail and Express Buses and Subway and Trolleys are equitable and charge by distance. Narrow the discount between monthly riders and daily riders. All of these could be implemented today.

Innovative technological solutions for the future are needed: Self-driving Ubers (no drivers to pay), self-driving electric rental cars at half the cost (machines lead to fewer crashes, less wear-and-tear, electric lasts longer and less maintenance than internal combustion). Light weight electric commuter cars that you pick up with a hoist and stack on the roof.
  by photobug56
 
Self driving anything on the lunar landscape we call roads is beyond insane. And few people can afford two cars, and rentals are now super expensive. A trackless trolley is a bus. But one good thing about driver less ubers - no rapists behind the wheel.

The age of the Jetsons seems great, but I'm guessing it won't be here - if ever, for a few centuries.
  by eolesen
 
photobug56 wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 7:56 pm few people can afford two cars
Vehicle ownership data indicates otherwise.... I'm sure in some congested areas like NYC, owning more than one car becomes prohibitive between parking and insurance, but certainly everywhere I've lived over the last 40 years, having two cars was more or less the minimum.