Would You Give Up Your Auto?

Sure, in the right place. I lived a year in Oslo without a car, almost three years in different cities in Chile without a car, four years in Cambridge, Mass., without a car, and a couple years in Champaign-Urbana, Illinois, without a car. Knock off the 4 years in Cambridge, if you want, because I didn't have to buy groceries, but I could have done that on foot or bike with no more trouble than in Champaign-Urbana.

I'd probably want to have easy access to rental cars I could use to go out into the country/woods a few times a year (but in Oslo I wouldn't even need that because you can backpack from subway and train stations).

In Terre Haute, I think once we didn't have a kid to pick up from a high school stupidly located in an industrial zone on the edge of town we could manage as a one-car family. I would need studded bike tires and some special cold-and-wet-weather biking clothes. We can walk to bank, real grocery store, hardware store; easy bike to library. But without a car it's almost impossible to leave town; I think there are just two or three buses a day to other cities.

Well Prof, it was noted how you made the scene at that "forgettable" restaurant in Terre Haute (my friend Meg, who grew up in TH and now resides in Indy, tells me what an "institution" that place is) last June on your "trike". I was "not exactly happy" having my "ride" parked on that "main drag" Wabash Ave.

You also noted "our Alma Mater" UIUC (CU or "ChamBana" were in-terms "back in my day", but UIUC became "it" as the System grew to three Campus all identified by alphabet soup). I did quite well without an auto through '65 when I dropped and went into Service. When I returned in '69 and resided off campus, I needed (wanted) my auto (service on the IC started to "suck" and the 57 was completed).

I never resided overseas (only visited) so not sure if I could "make it" without an auto; maybe $7.00ga might " do some thinking" for me. But "meanwhile back in the States", I haven't been behind the wheel since Dec 21, but will today for a routine Dental appointment. So even if in retirement, the auto is not "an everyday thing", I still could not envision life without it.

Would not be willing to give up my Auto - while there is public transit somewhat in my area getting to and from work would take too much of my day using the regional bus system and it's not good enough for going places (such us eating out, going to local breweries, etc.) for leisure which we do often. As someone who won't fly I was 100% auto for the longest time for all travel as well - having more recently (last 5-6 years or so) started using trains I am not putting as many long distance miles on the vehicle for vacations - it's been nice given I was usually driving solo as other family members are happy to fly so the train just makes the travel less stressful when I can use it - though many places I go the train isn't practical so it's still the auto.

I would love to be able to give up my car. I've done it a couple times when I lived in downtown Boston. I even upped the difficulty by doing this in pre-rideshare times and with a job in the suburbs (Waltham, along I-95). I found it tremendously liberating to not have to think about traffic. Of course, the key was that 98% of what I needed was within walking distance of where I lived, and 99% of what was left was within reach of transit.

That seems to be the key: not many places in the US have the comprehensive public transit necessary to manage without a car. We've spent ~70 years building a culture in which in lots of cities you can't buy a loaf of bread or a quart of milk -- or even go out to lunch from the office (in a greenfield office park out in the boonies) -- without getting in the car.

I disagree on that "we've failed at public transit"... Half the country lives in a handful of metro areas with access to public transit. The other half want their privacy and space... there's clearly room for both.

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I didn't say we've failed at public transit; we've produced the culture we wanted, and where it exists it's not compatible with public transit. I remember the postwar years when lots of people wanted nothing more than to get out of the crowded cities and into the wide open spaces; damn shame so many other people wanted the same thing ...

Long Island, among many other places, used to have 'light rail' aka trollies in numerous places. One of them, Northport, still has some of the tracks in place in view. We even had commuter rail in places we no longer due (for instance, east from Port Jefferson to Wading River). The latter was pulled up by LIRR decades ago; today, if it still existed, it could be extended as planned and meet up with at least one other line. But politicians like Robert Moses did everything they could to cut back, eliminate or prevent expansion. Many LRT lines were replace, sort of, by bus. But bus service out here is pitiful, at best.

In the days that we had decent inter city rail, it was a very practical way to travel to many places. Today, car, bus or plane - if the place you are going to or from is served by any of them. Service from my home town to my college town used to be decent - but was gone by the time I was born. The buses that replaced it were at best, uncomfortable and slow. Once you could take a commuter train to a major train station and get on a train that would have gone most of the way to where one of my kids went to college. To say that the daily buses that you need now are awful is a huge understatement.

Now I don't know if it's true that GM was part of why trollies went away, but car and bus manufacturers were happy about it. Good for them, bad for people.

Are Park and Ride stations are a good way of making rail compatible with low density areas?

I pretty much actually am. The 1987 Chevrolet Sprint in the back garage might not start if I trekked to the back alley. (It is very cold today.)
The address I give to Google™ is inaccurate. But not by much, and not just the number. It is in a different Chicago ward. Which says more about how Chicago gerrymanders those lines.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 7:50 am Conditions have to be right in order to pull it off. For instance, these have to be within short walking distance:

• A grocery store
• An office supply store
• A shipper, like a UPS Store. (Can be in the office supply store)
• A decent all-around cafe
• A few fast food places, including a pizza joint and an asian food joint.
• A community center
• A train station on a line that (within reasonable time) can access an airport.

Let's start here:

1. A Tony's Fresh Market three blocks east. A Cermak Fresh Market three blocks west (formerly a Jewel-Osco). A Jewel-Osco ten blocks north, reachable by the #54 Cicero bus.
2. What would I get at an office supply store? Photocopies?
3. The U.S.P.S. 60641 post office is three blocks north. I could use its photocopy machine. A Chicago Public Library branch is three blocks west, across from the Cermak Market. I could use its photocopy machine.
4. For the cafes and fast service restaurants, see this Google™ map denoting where I have taken out food during the COVID-19 pandemic.
5. The C.P.L. can count as the community center.
6. I can go straight south down Cicero Ave. to reach Midway Airport (MDW). It could be done faster if the Chicago Transit Authority would reinstate the route #X54 Cicero Express route between the Jefferson Park Transit Center and Midway. Currently, I must transfer at Cicero and Cermak in Cicero. I can ride the #54 Cicero route north to Montrose and walk two blocks east to the Blue Line “L” station (if weather is climate ~ I actually went the reverse direction on trips back from Tokyo, Japan [NRT | HND] with my carry-on full of artifacts), or ride the #77 Belmont bus east to a subterranean “L” station (if weather is cold or inclement) to get to O'Hare (ORD).
   The #54 Cicero bus runs 20 hours a day. The #77 Belmont bus runs 24|7|365.

So I think I am in a very good position to not have to drive much. I submitted written testimony to the C.T.A. urging re-routing the #54 Cicero bus north terminus to the Jefferson Park T.C.

ExCon90 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 9:43 pm That seems to be the key: not many places in the US have the comprehensive public transit necessary to manage without a car. We've spent ~70 years building a culture in which in lots of cities you can't buy a loaf of bread or a quart of milk -- or even go out to lunch from the office (in a greenfield office park out in the boonies) -- without getting in the car.

The way I describe it is, "Single passenger automobiles have a longer winning streak than the Harlem Globetrotters. It is time that streak was snapped."

mbrproductions wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:07 am Are Park and Ride stations are a good way of making rail compatible with low density areas?

Only ones I know of are large parking lots with some busses coming through once in a while with undefined bus stop locations, little to no signage, no clear schedules.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 7:50 am Conditions have to be right in order to pull it off. For instance, these have to be within short walking distance:

Definitely helps. My family has lived car light for about five years, which was just fine, even when all three kids were still living at home. We realized we were never using the second car, so we dropped it. But aside from my wife's commute, we hardly use the remaining car, either. From the list:

• A grocery store: one smallish but full service grocery store, 3 minute walk; three full sized grocery stores within a 10 minute bike ride.
• An office supply store: we used to have a Staples, 10 minute walk from the house, but that became a small format Target a few years ago, where I can still get whatever office supplies I need.
• A shipper, like a UPS Store. (Can be in the office supply store): US Post Office, 5 minute walk; multiple UPS and FedEx drop off locations.
• A decent all-around cafe: 3 of those, no more than 5-10 minutes walk.
• A few fast food places, including a pizza joint and an asian food joint: 4 Chinese, 3 pizza, 2 taco/burrito, along with a smattering of Greek, Indian, and Thai take-out options, all within a 10 minute walk.
• A community center: yes, and in the same building, a Registry of Motor Vehicles and Social Security Administration.
• A train station on a line that (within reasonable time) can access an airport: don't have this. I'm 3 blocks from a regional rail station on a line that allows for a transfer to a bus rapid transit line going to the airport. Alternatively, I'm just over a mile from a subway station for a line that allows for a transfer to the train that does go to the airport. Either option is pretty convenient.

In other words, there's got to be some serious TOD in order for it to happen.

Definitely. My neighborhood was one of the first TOD type areas built, though they were called street car suburbs at the time, as it was developed more than 100 years ago. I can walk or bike to most places I need, or if I want to use transit, I can be downtown via the already mentioned regional rail line in 15 minutes. There are also 12 different bus routes serving the neighborhood for more local transit options. All of this was what I purposefully sought out when I started looking for a place to settle.

For many years our household was an one-auto family and I rode public transit, specifically a bus, to and from work and any other time my wife had the car.

The transit service was increasingly unreliable, so when we inherited a second car it was a breath of fresh air.

Since then, we've always been a two car family, and looking for a third family. The last time I rode public transit was during a vacation to St. Louis when I took the light rail to the airport to get home (my friend picked me up from the airport on arrival).

Even in my new home, just taking a bus from my home to downtown (a distance of about three miles) requires a transfer. Why spend 45 minutes on a bus or at a bus stop when I can drive there in five minutes?

not where i live. public transport? what’s that?

nearest grocer - 6 miles
PO - 1 mile
restaurant - 2.5 miles
bus stop - nonexistent
train station - 25+ miles

vehicles? i own and keep on the road 6, for various tasks and work.

Nearest hourly at best bus route to my house is close to a mile with few if any sidewalks. And those hourly or so buses are known to run in packs.