Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

Moderator: GirlOnTheTrain

  by Gilbert B Norman
I'd like to think that this project is past "the point of no return" to have anyone looking to scale it back:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/03/nyreg ... enter.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Brief passage:
With its long steel wings poised sinuously above the National September 11 Memorial in Lower Manhattan, the World Trade Center Transportation Hub has finally assumed its full astonishing form, more than a decade after it was conceived.

Its colossal avian presence may yet guarantee the hub a place in the pantheon of civic design in New York. But it cannot escape another, more ignominious distinction as one of the most expensive and most delayed train stations ever built.

The price tag is approaching $4 billion, almost twice the estimate when plans were unveiled in 2004. Administrative costs alone — construction management, supervision, inspection, monitoring and documentation, among other items — exceed $655 million.
But something tells me that if it were to be proposed today - 14 years after 9/11, the structure would be quite a bit more "functional".
  by 25Hz
Guaranteed to drip wet bird crap and throw ice at people, yay!

I would have simply capped the ends with rounded covers and been done with it....... so much wasted money.
  by Allan
I have to agree but then we are talking about the Port Authority of NJ & NJ. To spend so much money over so few people using that station (as compared to a station like Grand Central) - it boggles the mind.

I find the structure interesting, every time I am down there and look at it from Dey St and Broadway, it reminds me of the prow of a battleship. I don't know why - it just does.
  by 25Hz
WTC is not lightly used, but the big spiky extensions are definitely NOT needed. I will not be surprised at all if they get removed.
  by zerovanity59
The article makes a point that the station is designed for "160,000 PATH riders daily", but serves an average of 46,000.

Does anyone know where these figures come from or the capacity at rush hour?
  by Tadman
After looking at it - "Lord Vader, your train station is ready"...
  by millerm277
zerovanity59 wrote:The article makes a point that the station is designed for "160,000 PATH riders daily", but serves an average of 46,000.

Does anyone know where these figures come from or the capacity at rush hour?
The 46,000 is basically in line with PATH ridership reports. Here's 2014: http://www.panynj.gov/path/pdf/path-rid ... t-2014.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; And here's 2012: http://www.panynj.gov/corporate-informa ... 3889-O.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
  by zerovanity59
So, do we have rush hour numbers?

Estimating indicates that the station is not over built. On a weekday ~46K passengers use the station. I think this is a measure of entrances or exits and not both because the numbers add to the total. Is the 160,000 for one direction or both? I will assume the numbers are directly comparable. By subtracting out holiday numbers (weekend numbers are useless because of the closures), assume that ~30,000 are commuters. Assume that rush hour is four hours long. This comes out to ~7,500 an hour. 160,000/24 is ~6,500. It does not sound like the station was over designed.
  by Gilbert B Norman
Well, not from the front page, but the lead article in the New York section of Today's Times:

http://nytimes.com/2017/08/03/nyregion/ ... ummer.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fair Use:
Still, PATH plays an integral part in getting workers across the Hudson River every day. And this summer, it has taken on an even larger role, carrying an additional load each weekday of more than 22,000 passengers whose usual trains have been canceled or diverted because of emergency track repairs at Pennsylvania Station in Manhattan.

And, with a few exceptions, PATH has managed the challenge of getting all of those displaced commuters across the Hudson on schedule. Michael Marino, who runs the PATH system for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, said the system had maintained an on-time performance of nearly 98 percent since July 10, when tracks at Penn Station were closed to accommodate the repair work.

“This is our time to shine and we’re shining,” Mr. Marino said of the line, which links Newark, Jersey City and Hoboken to Midtown Manhattan and the World Trade Center downtown.
Aside from some convenient statistics, there is nothing to break any ground around here. It's a "feel good" piece when New York area transit definitely needs one.
  by andrewjw
One of the few remaining pieces of this system - the R/W to E connection and Oculus direct entrance to R/W southbound platform - has opened.
  by Tom V
The final piece of the Transportation hub is open, the 1 train WTC/ Cortland stop. I can't believe after all the years following the project that not only is it complete, but that I would transfer to Lower Manhattam and be traversing through the hub on a daily basis.
  by Defiant
I ended up in the Oculus a few times last year when the Hoboken to 33rd street service was canceled. The structure is ipressive, airy, filled with light and beautiful. However, the PATH platforms are still narrow and seem to be at capacity right after people got off a rush hour train. Why are they so narrow, seems like a pretty obvious safety risk? Also of course there is no daylight on the platforms, they are covered by the ceiling/floor. I think in a structure this large, they could've easily opened up the tracks to light losing some square footage to commerce. This would'be been a truly unique place then...
  by Head-end View
The platforms seemed wide enough to me when I was there. But that was mid-day when it's not that crowded. I guess they couldn't be made any wider than before 9/11 because of the existing track configuration.