Winter Park Express: Denver-Winter Park Ski Train

John_Perkowski wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2024 11:31 pm

electricron wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2024 12:41 am I do not understand how baggage claims at Denver International Airport has anything to do with Amtrak's Ski Train.
May I suggest taking the California Zephyr to downtown Denver instead?

Read the OPs remark: His wife said NO.

Great
Since when has railraod.net turned into airline.net?

ryanwc wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 2:49 pm
The usefulness of the ski train seems mostly limited to Denverites, given it's sparse service and downtown terminus. If it were just me and my wife, maybe, but with the kids, getting from DIA to Denver Union Station with skis and luggage adds just enough to logistics that I can't see doing it. (Or rather, can't see convincing my wife.)

The new Denver heavy rail airport line goes directly from the airport to the DUS terminal, one track over (maybe 3) from the Ski Train. This assumes a same day connection which might be rough given the ski train leaves at 7am. That means you would have to land at like 5am, thus leaving Chicago at 3am. Probably not workable unless you stay in Denver overnight near the station. The new Crawford hotel is nice but expensive.

ryanwc wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 2:49 pmThere's so much traffic on the road over the Berthoud Pass and so little chance of expanding the roadway, and yet the train and bus options are really not great. To meet up with us after arriving late, my nephew took a $150 Uber (after tip).

There is no easy win here and it makes the whole trip a lot less fun. When we were in our 20's we'd rent a car for the group, but thats a lot harder with spouses and kids now. So everbody has to rent their own car, rental cars can get sparse on big weekends... the mountain express bus is EXPENSIVE. And lift tickets are obscene as well now.

Service Expansion: https://www.cpr.org/2024/08/16/winter-p ... expansion/

Colorado wants to expand Winter Park ski train service this year

...
Now, state transportation officials are in discussions with Amtrak and Winter Park Resort to boost the service using state transit dollars raised by a new fee on rental cars.
...
Officials want the train to run more days per week and are looking at moving up the start of service to December. They also want to add capacity for each train and possibly extend service past the platform at the Winter Park resort base.
...

Is there a hotel at the park? If I remember correctly it's basically daily day-trip-and-back service.

electricron wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 3:54 am Great
Since when has railraod.net turned into airline.net?

Mode choices, and the whys of the choice, are germane. Outside a few corridors, Amtrak is Vitamin service (One A Day brand), and not necessarily a viable transport option.

They obviously saw my post and realized I was right.

Yes there is a fair amount of lodging at the foot of the hill. And bus service is pretty good to get around the area since parking is limited.

https://media.amtrak.com/2024/11/amtrak ... is-season/

Amtrak Winter Park Express Starts Sooner, Goes Farther and Runs More Often This Season

An additional destination and five days of roundtrips weekly starting in January are among new features of the popular service

WINTER PARK, Colo. — To meet growing demand for train travel, the Amtrak Winter Park Express will kick off its season with holiday runs starting in December. This seasonal service expands to five days weekly after the New Year. With 69 roundtrips this season – 29 more than last season – the Winter Park Express will more conveniently serve ski and non-ski passengers traveling from Denver to the Fraser Valley.

The Winter Park Express season will start on the last two weekends of this year, Dec. 20-22 and Dec. 27-29, plus Jan. 3-5. Expanded service begins on Jan. 9 and runs Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays, Sundays and Mondays through March 31. The trains will serve both the Winter Park Resort and neighboring Fraser.

Tickets start at $19 ($9.50 for kids) and are available now.

Passenger rail along the Front Range and through the U.S. Highway 40 Mountain Corridor is a state priority, and the Winter Park Express shows public desire for more mass transit options through the mountains and beyond. The rail route taken by the Winter Park Express is the first leg of a state-proposed Mountain Corridor passenger rail line that would eventually run from Denver to Craig.

“The Winter Park Express is a great opportunity for Coloradans and visitors to explore our mountains without the hassle of driving or traffic. Now with expanded service and lower costs, Coloradans can save time and money on our way to enjoying our great outdoors. I look forward to taking the train into the mountains this season,” said Governor Jared Polis.

“At CDOT, we know that big ski days often mean tough drives in the mountains, and the Winter Park Express offers a great option to take a relaxing, affordable trip. We are excited to join in this innovative partnership to expand service and lower costs for an iconic Colorado travel experience,” said Colorado Department of Transportation Executive Director Shoshana Lew.

“The Winter Park Express ski train has long been a beloved tradition for Colorado and our guests from around the globe. It has demonstrated the desire from both residents and visitors for transportation options other than passenger vehicles. The Winter Park Express gives people another way to get to the slopes that’s more scenic, sustainable, and relaxing than getting in a car and driving,” said Sky Foulkes, president of the Winter Park Resort.

“We look forward to a bigger season than ever, with more than twice as many trips and an additional destination,” said Amtrak Executive Vice President Dennis Newman. “With the State of Colorado expanding its partnership with the resort and Amtrak, the future of passenger rail on this corridor is bright.”

Customers can bring their skis and snowboards as a carry-on for no additional charge. While onboard, they’ll enjoy a trip in Coach class featuring wide, reclining seats with a big picture window, ample legroom and no middle seat. The train also features a bi-level Sightseer Lounge – the social hub of the train – offering panoramic views of the Rocky Mountains from upstairs and café service downstairs with snacks and drinks for purchase.

Tickets between Denver Union Station (station code: DEN) to Winter Park Resort (station code: WPR) and Fraser (station code: WIP) can be booked at Amtrak.com/WinterParkExpress and the Amtrak app. The train departs Denver at 7 a.m. and arrives at the resort at 9:11 a.m. and in Fraser at 9:41 a.m. The return trip departs Fraser at 4:05 p.m. and Winter Park Resort at 4:35 p.m. and arrives in Denver at 7:05 p.m. Denver Union Station is served by the Regional Transportation District’s commuter trains from Denver International Airport as well as light rail, local or intercity buses, ride-sharing services, and taxis.

Customers in groups of up to eight can purchase Winter Park Express tickets at Amtrak.com/WinterParkExpress and the Amtrak app. Customers in groups of 9-14 can call 800-USA-RAIL (1-800-872-7245) to make a reservation. Groups of 15 or more—including requests for exclusive railcar occupancy—should fill out this form. For more information about group travel, call 800-USA-1GRP (1-800-872-1477) weekdays, 6 a.m. – 6 p.m. MT, or email [email protected].

Lift tickets and other passes can be purchased directly from the Winter Park Resort website. Winter Park Resort is an Alterra Mountain Company property and its Ikon Pass welcomes skiers and riders to a community of inspiring mountain destinations across the Americas, Europe, Australia, New Zealand and Japan.

Two details left out of the press release are the numbers on capacity expansion, from 270 seats to 405, and the fact that the expansion is funded by the rental car tax.

What is the length of the Winter Park platform? That might limit train length unless it can become longer? Then what will the Fraser location handle in length since the locos will swap ends there?

west point wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 8:20 pm What is the length of the Winter Park platform? That might limit train length unless it can become longer? Then what will the Fraser location handle in length since the locos will swap ends there?

My Google Earth tools suggest 950 feet at Winter Park and 1250 feet at Frasier.
Since the Superliners are around 85 feet in length each, that's easily 11 Superliner cars at Winter Park and up to 15 Superliner cars at Frasier.
Last year the Winter Express train ran with 7 Superliner cars, six coaches and one Sightseer Lounge using 595 feet. 85 x 7 = 586.
Two of the coaches had the baggage compartment on the lower level, one for day trips and another for prolonged stays.
The upper level of a Superliner has 62 seats, with 15 seats on the lower level.
So potentially last year, (62 x 6) + (15x4) = 372 + 60 = 432 seats.
more math = 950 - 590 = 360 feet remaining at Winter Park. 360/85 = 4.2
So potentially this winter (24-25) Amtrak could squeeze 10 coaches and one Sightseer Lounge on this train without exceeding the platform capability at Winter Park. That's 4 more cars and potentially 735 seats. 620 + 115 = 735

I’m not saying you’re wrong, electricron. You may have more insight.

But this detail has been widely reported:

> In a press release, the governor’s office announced that Amtrak is adding two train cars to the Express, boosting the number of seats from 268 to approximately 402

Why do their numbers differ from yours?

ryanwc wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2024 1:55 am I’m not saying you’re wrong, electricron. You may have more insight.
But this detail has been widely reported:
> In a press release, the governor’s office announced that Amtrak is adding two train cars to the Express, boosting the number of seats from 268 to approximately 402
Why do their numbers differ from yours?

Because I included the maximum amount of seats possible in the maximum number of cars to fit the Winter Park platform. I was answering what could be, not what would be.
There are at least 62 seats on the upper level of every Superliner car and 15 seats on the lower level.
268 / 62 = 4.33
4x 62 = 248 +15 = 263 ; 5 seats lower than what 4 cars can carry with one with lower level seating.
402 - 268 = 134
2x 62 = 124 +15 = 139
402 seats can be achieved with 6 Superliner coach cars, with just 2 of them having seats on the lower level. That means 4 have other facilities in the lower level, like baggage compartments or unneeded cafe compartments.

And here's a youtube video from 2 winters ago with 7 total Superliner cars.

electricron wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2024 9:33 pm Because I included the maximum amount of seats possible in the maximum number of cars to fit the Winter Park platform. I was answering what could be, not what would be.
There are at least 62 seats on the upper level of every Superliner car and 15 seats on the lower level.
268 / 62 = 4.33
4x 62 = 248 +15 = 263 ; 5 seats lower than what 4 cars can carry with one with lower level seating.
402 - 268 = 134
2x 62 = 124 +15 = 139
402 seats can be achieved with 6 Superliner coach cars, with just 2 of them having seats on the lower level. That means 4 have other facilities in the lower level, like baggage compartments or unneeded cafe compartments.

And here's a youtube video from 2 winters ago with 7 total Superliner cars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJ29gKK--kY

Given the function of the train line, these likely are baggage compartments with a select few ADA full coaches. They have one cafe car, and the trip is 2-3 hours long one way.

Is there anywhere along the Ski Train route through the western neighborhoods and suburbs of Denver where someone someday might be able to add a platform and suburban stop for the Ski Train? It seems like that would be an easier way to make the train more convenient for more people than any attempt to ease connections from the airport (because of the timing and because there are a lot of people in greater Denver so might as well cater to such of them as maybe wouldn't have to park downtown.)