Will They Ever Return?

Dcell wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 8:19 pm Demolition of the decrepit Hotel Penn is progressing rapidly,

Mr. Dcell, So the Hotel Pennsylvania, Statler, Statler Hilton, ?,?, Pennsylvania has been chopped down!!!

OMG, where will our four legged K-9 friends now stay when competing at Westminster (dog show held at MSG)?

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:42 am

Dcell wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 8:19 pm Demolition of the decrepit Hotel Penn is progressing rapidly,

Mr. Dcell, So the Hotel Pennsylvania, Statler, Statler Hilton, ?,?, Pennsylvania has been chopped down!!!

OMG, where will our four legged K-9 friends now stay when competing at Westminster (dog show held at MSG)?

They moved to the National Tennis Center in Queens and have all the hotels around the area. In 2022 they were at the historical Lyndhurst Estate.
https://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/m ... rical-data

I wouldn't worry about the dogs now (although funny enough, I agree with Milkbone's "Less Christmas, More Dog" commercial).

Still, sad to see the Hotel Pennsylvania go. Granted, I would love a Pullman style hotel be set up around the area (see The Jane).

NJ Transit used to annually rent 3 rooms there for midday use for its crews during layovers between morning and evening rush hour. I don't know what facility is used now for crew layovers.

Dcell wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:33 pm NJ Transit used to annually rent 3 rooms there for midday use for its crews during layovers between morning and evening rush hour. I don't know what facility is used now for crew layovers.

I'm reminded of MARC service, where CSX (when they were running the trains w/conductors) would have a few rooms at a nearby hotel to DC Union Station for their crew, especially for the Brunswick line MARC service. I don't know if Bombardier is doing the same, and if Amtrak is doing it for their Penn line crews.

I'd think they'll have a few rooms at the nearby Marriott now.

This Journal article is indeed ominous for a mass transit pre-COVID return:

Fair Use:

New York’s subway system has regained about two-thirds of its pre-pandemic ridership with about 91 million trips in November, according to the MTA. But that is about 50 million fewer rides than in November 2019. Officials worry usage has stalled out at that level.

In San Francisco, the Bay Area Rapid Transit, or BART, recorded 3.7 million trips in November—a little more than one-third of the ridership before Covid.

Systems in Chicago, Philadelphia and Boston also remain short of their pre-pandemic user numbers, deepening financial strains. In cities such as Dallas and Cincinnati, where public-transit budgets are mostly funded through sales tax revenue and more people commute by car, user declines haven’t hit as hard.

In the U.S. overall, about 883,000 fewer people took public transit in the third quarter of 2022 compared with the same period in 2019, according to federal data gathered by the American Public Transportation Association.

The decline is particularly acute among so-called “choice riders”, people who have access to a vehicle but choose to take mass transit...... This group includes office workers who tend to favor commuter rail over public buses

Another ominous point to note from the article; the more ridership goes down, the more crime goes up.

For myself, I will still use METRA to go to the Loop, and walk to wherever, but personal safety concerns have likely resulted in my final CTA ride - and with that went my $8.50 Senior RT "poor man's way to O'Hare" (two hours each way).

On the days that I go to the office, that are usually Tuesday or Thursday, NJ Transit BC line trains during rush hour are probably running at about 75% of the 2019 levels. I understand that this presents a problem from the transit revenue point of view. But from passenger experience point of view, the situation is very pleasant. 7:45 am on my stop now always has seats. Before Covid, getting a sit on that train, especially in a quite car, would've been difficult. I tried to avoid this train before.

PATH is pretty packed but I would say that it is also at about 75%-80% of 2019 levels. All of these are of course non scientific, personal estimates. But most people have returned to the NJT/PATH systems though not exactly at the same crazy volume as before. Which is good for a passenger but probably not good for transit system revenue...

Several media outlets have reported this past week that Chicago office occupancy is presently 52% of pre-COVID 2019 levels.

These reports are drawn from employee Badge swipes upon entering offices. The report notes considerably less attendance on both Monday and Friday.

Offices that do not have this rather commonplace security system are obviously excluded from the survey.

I kinda wonder what are those rates in other big major cities. DC, Baltimore, Philadelphia, NYC, Miami, Boston, Chicago, St. Louis, Dallas, Houston, Phoenix, LA, San Francisco/San Jose/Oakland, Portland (OR), Seattle. Mainly "Where there's a football and/or baseball stadium".

Here's the numbers I can find for offices: https://www.kastle.com/safety-wellness/ ... -barometer

Looks like NYC and Chicago are both above average. Houston has the highest numbers but also the highest spread between the days of the week.

A NJ commuter bus operator, DeCamp, will cease service on April 7.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/20/nyre ... p-bus.html

Daily ridership had fallen from more than 6,500 passengers to fewer than 400 at the time, leading Mr. DeCamp to park his fleet of buses and furlough his work force. Now, the service, which serves suburbs including Montclair and Bloomfield, averages about 1,250 to 1,300 riders each weekday, across roughly 80 trips to and from the city, Mr. DeCamp said. Before the pandemic, the service made about 223 trips each day, he said.

The shuttering of DeCamp’s commuter service is a “seismic event in the New Jersey commuting landscape,” said Joe Colangelo, the chief executive of Boxcar, which provides “business-class” bus service at a premium price for New Jersey suburban commuters heading into New York.

Since the start of the pandemic, transportation services across the country — private and public — have been working to claw back ridership. But their recoveries have been complicated.

The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey reported that its PATH service, which brings commuters in and out of Manhattan, recorded 52 percent of its 2019 ridership levels last year.

Funny how I read in both The Times and Journal how companies are corraling their workers back into the office, but yet how the return to mass transit seems to be lagging.

Is it because of fear of crime - even if nil to nonexistent on the rail lines has become more prevalent on urban mass transit?

I'm honestly now afraid to ride the CTA. Last November, I went into town for a Funeral Mass at Holy Name. It was "drizziling", but rather than taking the CTA the 1.5mi from CUS, I walked.

I also used to have my "poor man's way to O'Hare ($8.50 RT Senior)" BNSF to CUS, then Blue Line. Not anymore!!! Now it's $120 round trip to a livery car.

I've been saying for over two years... 60-75% is the best that will return.



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eolesen wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:52 am I've been saying for over two years... 60-75% is the best that will return.



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My weekly or so, on varying weekdays, personal observations of the NJ Transit parking lot at High Bridge, NJ station still shows the number of cars parked there at about 40 percent of pre-Covid.

Amtrak extended no-fee ticket changes (including on saver fares) through the end of the year.

That said the 7.37 and 8.33 Keystones from Trenton for tomorrow are sold out. The 9.15 has 2 tickets for $21 left. Amtrak did start promoting owl fares, which is new.

I wanted to check https://new.mta.info/coronavirus/ridership-archive but it shows me "access denied".