LIRR M3

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nyandw
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LIRR M3

Post by nyandw » Thu May 09, 2019 11:21 pm

Posted: http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/M3/M3.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Has anyone seen car diagrams available?
Which car, in the pairs, had the restroom, A or B?
Did the LIRR have similar ads, flyers, media coverage as with the M1s, from the LIRR PR Dep’t and Budd, etc.?

R36 Combine Coach
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Re: LIRR M3

Post by R36 Combine Coach » Fri May 10, 2019 12:23 am

Original Budd/TransitAmerica press photos of 9837 at Red Lion Road assembly plant, late 1985/early 1986:

9837
Interior
Interior

"B" cars (odd) are toilet equipped.
Since my friend continues to chain smoke nonstop, she is probably an Alco.

nyandw
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Re: LIRR M3

Post by nyandw » Sat May 11, 2019 1:18 am

R36 Combine Coach wrote:Original Budd/TransitAmerica press photos of 9837 at Red Lion Road assembly plant, late 1985/early 1986:

9837
Interior
Interior

"B" cars (odd) are toilet equipped.
Thank you, Kevin. :-)

BuddR32
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Re: LIRR M3

Post by BuddR32 » Sat May 11, 2019 3:51 pm

Thank you for posting the pictures.

A-cars contain the batteries, low voltage power supply and auxiliary inverter, which replaced a rather antiquated (for 1984) motor-alternator set.

B-cars contain the bathroom, air compressor, and speed control equipment.

All other equipment is generally the same on both cars.

Note: Metro North M3a cars still have the motor-alternators. I said they were antiquated, I didn’t say they were unreliable. Just surprised they were used on new equipment then.

Nasadowsk
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Re: LIRR M3

Post by Nasadowsk » Sat May 11, 2019 5:04 pm

BuddR32 wrote: Note: Metro North M3a cars still have the motor-alternators. I said they were antiquated, I didn’t say they were unreliable. Just surprised they were used on new equipment then.
In the early 80's? I'm not. Inverters were still in their infancy back then, and MA sets were a known thing. I'm more surprised the AEM-7 had one for HEP (though ASEA was at the forefront of that stuff back then). I'm kinda surprised the M-3s had camshaft controls, though that's likely more for compatability with the M-1s. There were plenty of examples of solid state DC choppers by then. As an aside, SEPTA recently replaced the camshaft controls in the Broad Street cars with an IGBT based chopper. They figure a payback of roughly 10 years, based on the efficiency gains, the regeneration gains, and reliability. The system is slick enough to chop the power to the motors if it detects a flashover is starting to happen. A large amount of the projected savings is simply the new system doesn't pop traction motors as often...

R36 Combine Coach
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Re: LIRR M3

Post by R36 Combine Coach » Sat May 11, 2019 5:24 pm

Didn't PATCO switch to DC chopper too? Even in the late 80s DC cam control was still used - NYCT R62A, R68, R68A, all Westinghouse Cam Control. CTA 3200s (early 90s) are GE CCM (computerized cam similar to E-Cam).
Since my friend continues to chain smoke nonstop, she is probably an Alco.

Nasadowsk
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Re: LIRR M3

Post by Nasadowsk » Sat May 11, 2019 5:52 pm

R36 Combine Coach wrote:Didn't PATCO switch to DC chopper too? Even in the late 80s DC cam control was still used - NYCT R62A, R68, R68A, all Westinghouse Cam Control. CTA 3200s (early 90s) are GE CCM (computerized cam similar to E-Cam).
They might have. SEPTA's white paper says retaining DC was a decision made to reduce costs - changing to AC would have required new gearboxes.

I have no idea why the NYCTA retained cam control for so long, it's not like they had EMI issues to deal with. And cam is a maintenance beast...

BuddR32
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Re: LIRR M3

Post by BuddR32 » Sat May 11, 2019 8:44 pm

Nasadowsk wrote:
BuddR32 wrote: Note: Metro North M3a cars still have the motor-alternators. I said they were antiquated, I didn’t say they were unreliable. Just surprised they were used on new equipment then.
In the early 80's? I'm not. Inverters were still in their infancy back then, and MA sets were a known thing. I'm more surprised the AEM-7 had one for HEP (though ASEA was at the forefront of that stuff back then). .
I suppose you're right. I thought the R-44, 46 subway cars had inverters, in the 70's. As it turns out, they did, only for lighting. All the motor loads (Air, HVAC, etc, were DC)

Nasadowsk
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Re: LIRR M3

Post by Nasadowsk » Sat May 11, 2019 9:10 pm

BuddR32 wrote: I suppose you're right. I thought the R-44, 46 subway cars had inverters, in the 70's. As it turns out, they did, only for lighting. All the motor loads (Air, HVAC, etc, were DC)
It was a technology just starting to appear in the industrial world. I heard a story from an old electrician who was around when an early inverter (GE - the inverter division was..in Erie) was installed at a pump station...

There were three pumps, two inverters (they couldn't afford 3 - we're talking only 100 HP units here!). And a cabinet to switch the pumps into the inverters as needed. Well they made a big deal about it when it was installed (It was the late 70's - energy conservation was a BIG thing), had a big press event, invited the mayor, etc.

Naturally, when they turned it on in front of everyone, it promptly smoked out!

I remember seeing the two units in their last days. Noisy, BIG, all analog. Electrician said they never worked well. The replacements (Eaton) were so small you could pick one up. And each pump got one. Once in operation, the place was so much quieter, the office folks next door came over wondering if the pump station was being ripped out - the noise was gone!

The electrician wasn't worried about losing his job - he said a few Class Is were chasing after him because apparently the old GEs were pretty much early versions of what locomotives used, and they were desperate for folks who understood the things (what's so hard about an inverter anyway? ;) )

Today, everyone makes an inverter, and they're everywhere. Nobody uses DC in the industrial world anymore, if they can avoid it...

R36 Combine Coach
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Re: LIRR M3

Post by R36 Combine Coach » Mon May 20, 2019 5:15 pm

One other item of note: the M-3s are the last electric MUs to still blink out on power gaps.
Since my friend continues to chain smoke nonstop, she is probably an Alco.

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