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  • NJT to benefit from economic stimulus??

  • Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.
Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.

Moderators: lensovet, Kaback9, nick11a

 #610240  by northjerseybuff
 
I am not looking for a flame war over politics or a wish list of what could be done...My question is based on news/facts. As being reported by many tv news stations and newspaper articles it looks as if Obama will pass a new bailout similar to that of during the great depression. Obviously we all were not around back then so we don't know how fast things were done then..I am curious to know how NJT may benefit from this. A quote stated many states are bringing projects that are needed to the forefront in hopes of being done with the new bailout..Ya think NJT has hopes in getting some things done??
 #610241  by Kaback9
 
I Hope NJT can some how benefit from the economic stimulus package or whatever they are calling it now, but I will say this NJT seems to be focoused only on that tunnel. Maybe this could help get money for MOM, the Lackawanna Cutoff and maybe the West Trenton line? Who knows? Maybe they could talk to Amtrak about upgrading the catenary in NJ for true HS ops.
 #610251  by northjerseybuff
 
I think THE tunnel will be directly effected by the stimulus package. I bet the shovels are in the ground ASAP after Obama is sworn in..corzine wants to keep the jobs going and I think this is one project that we will see get started. You bring up good points about the other projects..we know what they are, cutoff/West trenton/northern branch...etc...will NJT pursue in getting funds...maybe the economic turndown will push them and the state to think 'green" and for the future..and of course keeping thouse construction jobs in demand..
 #610347  by PullmanCo
 
Obama cannot create money out of thin air. Every new dollar that the printing press churns out serves to lower the dollar's value—look at Zimbabwe nowadays, and the Weimar Republic in the past. We can't do any comparisons to the so-called "New Deal", because the dollar back during FDR's days was backed by something real (gold), was not the world's reserve currency, and was not beset by trillions in debt (domestic and foreign); and on top of that, the USA still had lots and lots of domestic industry and raw materials production. If any "stimulus" money were to appear without lowering the dollar's value drastically, it'll be borrowed…but the USA's usual creditors are considering backing off lending in order to take care of their own economies.
 #610385  by fredct
 
There's significant precedent to think that deficit spending in poor economic times is not likely to be inflationary. When people don't have money to spend due to unemployment, its harder for inflation to take hold. There's no doubt that you have to watch and be careful - stagflation did occur in the 70s - but its less likely. Deficit spending in good times in more inflationary, and we've had that for the last decade or so without inflation running out of control. Again, its a concern you have to watch out for, but its not necessarily something that should prevent you from even trying in the first place.


Back to the issue at hand - my understanding is the money would be targeted to things that are ready to go immediately. ARC is one of those - there are some funding issues that are holding it up, but if the feds pumped another couple billion or so at it, you could probably start the whole things up tomorrow. Things like MOM, W Trenton, etc are not. Plans aren't set, reviews aren't done. They may be able to get at some of this money down the line, but the immediate funding would be for things that can take off immediately - and in that category, its mostly and primarily ARC.

 #610417  by PullmanCo
 
That would be a disaster.

I cited both Zimbabwe and the Weimar Republic as current and historic examples of hyperinflation. Neither country is/was living in "good economic times".
 #610420  by fredct
 
And both had far far far far less credit trustworthiness built into their currencies. To compare the US Dollar and its strength to the Zimbabwean whatever (its dollar too, isn't it), or the old weimar mark, is like comparing the NY Yankees to a little league team.
 #610431  by PullmanCo
 
both had far far far far less credit trustworthiness built into their currencies
You can't build something like that in. People either trust a currency or they do not. Ever since the US dollar became a fiat currency, it's relied on trust; and if that trust goes, then the dollar will go out of control. Many other countries are diversifying away from the dollar in terms of reserve holdings. (This is in spite of the Bretton Woods agreement, which, incidentally, the European Union wants to renegotiate.)
 #610438  by fredct
 
I agree, as I said, you have to be careful, you can lose people's faith. But don't compare the current position of the US dollar to that of something like the Zimbabwe dollar before it went into freefall. It never had the faith that the US dollar has.

Nonetheless, i find it amazing that after 8 years of substantial deficits - and basically 25 years - all of a sudden this is now too far, when economic downturns are exactly the one time when its most justifiable.


But, please, lets get back to how this impacts NJT. If you want to discuss it further, Pullman, message me privately. The plan calls for things that can be under contract within 180 days. MOM and W Trenton aren't there - ARC is.
 #610512  by Tom V
 
They can expedite things a bit when they have the funding, look at the rail link to the Meadowlands and how quickly it got started.

The ARC tunnel has already secured $5.7 Billion from the Port Authority and the State of New Jersey, they are asking for a Federal commitment of $3 Billion. Let's say for arguments sake the State were to ask for an additional $3 Billion, for a total Federal money of $6 BIllion.

$3 Billion is already going to ARC.

You could invest in three projects for $1.5 Billion:

M.O.M, West Trenton, Lackawanna Cut Off

The remaining $1.5 BIllion could be used for such items as
road improvements such as additional overpasses on Route 1,
investing in wind farms off the Jersey shore.
 #610644  by blockline4180
 
PullmanCo wrote:Obama cannot create money out of thin air. Every new dollar that the printing press churns out serves to lower the dollar's value—look at Zimbabwe nowadays, and the Weimar Republic in the past. We can't do any comparisons to the so-called "New Deal", because the dollar back during FDR's days was backed by something real (gold), was not the world's reserve currency, and was not beset by trillions in debt (domestic and foreign); and on top of that, the USA still had lots and lots of domestic industry and raw materials production.
Yeah, i kinda agree that we are all pretty much screwed... I refer to my signature once again!

There are too many signs and the signs arent good one bit for this planet... If you know who Harold Camping is you know what I'm talking about, but I digress.
 #610705  by Taborite
 
Kaback9 wrote:Seems like more highway work just what this state needs...
Still, it looks like ARC, Lackawanna Cutoff, and the Northern Branch are all on the menu for at least a little bit of funding under the plan. Unfortunately I'm still hoping to see the first of those is held back until at bare minimum a design that allows for a track connection between the new and old New York stations is built, but that's an argument for another thread.
 #610713  by Kaback9
 
Taborite wrote:
Kaback9 wrote:Seems like more highway work just what this state needs...
Still, it looks like ARC, Lackawanna Cutoff, and the Northern Branch are all on the menu for at least a little bit of funding under the plan. Unfortunately I'm still hoping to see the first of those is held back until at bare minimum a design that allows for a track connection between the new and old New York stations is built, but that's an argument for another thread.
I agree with you building a seperate station is not a good idea unless its part of a bigger New Penn Station in which case its really not a seperate station. MAybe they could put that in the funding for it from the feds? But like you say thats for another thread.
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