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Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.

Moderators: lensovet, Kaback9, nick11a

 #727318  by GSC
 
*Edit: Ah, here's the quote from the Monroe councilman I had in mind: "...Nalitt said Monroe has four grade crossings with about 180 buses crossing the tracks daily and having this new line would pose an increased safety risk for the buses." To my knowledge, NJT has never had a schoolbus/train accident since it began operations.*

Seems to me, ALL buses are required by law to come to a full stop, within 50 feet of a rail crossing, and look both ways before proceeding, even at obviously abandoned crossings such as the FIT between Freehold and Farmingdale. Mr. Nalitt should get out more often. These buses he speaks of stop at these four crossings each and every time they cross. A violation of this law can result in loss of your "P" and "S" endorsements on your CDL, even loss of the license altogether, causing your job to go away
 #727325  by E-44
 
baju wrote: The crap about the nimbys holding up the mom line is pure foolishness...government can do what it wants to.
We have (and have had) a "pay to play" government at the state, county and municipal levels for almost a century. And, yes, well-heeled NIMBys and politicians who get kickbacks for doling out road construction projects can and have halted rail progress. Money = Power.
 #727350  by finsuburbia
 
GSC wrote:*Edit: Ah, here's the quote from the Monroe councilman I had in mind: "...Nalitt said Monroe has four grade crossings with about 180 buses crossing the tracks daily and having this new line would pose an increased safety risk for the buses." To my knowledge, NJT has never had a schoolbus/train accident since it began operations.*

Seems to me, ALL buses are required by law to come to a full stop, within 50 feet of a rail crossing, and look both ways before proceeding, even at obviously abandoned crossings such as the FIT between Freehold and Farmingdale. Mr. Nalitt should get out more often. These buses he speaks of stop at these four crossings each and every time they cross. A violation of this law can result in loss of your "P" and "S" endorsements on your CDL, even loss of the license altogether, causing your job to go away
Not if the crossing has "Exempt" written on it, such as on the NYSW branch crossing on Route 17.
 #727869  by haamster
 
E-44 wrote: Edit: Ah, here's the quote from the Monroe councilman I had in mind: "...Nalitt said Monroe has four grade crossings with about 180 buses crossing the tracks daily and having this new line would pose an increased safety risk for the buses." To my knowledge, NJT has never had a schoolbus/train accident since it began operations.
Again, I think the argument against service due to bus crossings is dubious at best, but the number that Irv Nalitt threw out there includes empty buses. I was estimating full ones.

To clarify my position, I'm for the line being built to South Brunswick, but being a former Jamesburg resident, I know and understand the concerns. The tracks currently exist on the right of way, yes. But everyone here bandies about the word "NIMBY" as an cheap win in their argument. As I've said before, everyone in the state/country/world is a NIMBY depending on what it is that is being put in the BY. I wonder how many people on this site have been annoyed or protest when an airport has discussed improvements to runways or addition of hangar space because that would mean JETS would be flying there. Anyone live near Rocky Hill? Or god-forbid the FAA proposes a change to arrival/departure routes into Newark.

I know this is a railroad forum, so the opinions are generally going to be stacked in favor of more service, ludicrous or well-deserving both, but a little dose of empathy goes a long way towards a winning argument. Instead of smacking down those opposed just because you don't agree with their conclusion, it would be better to address the concerns head-on, something Transit and commuter groups have not done adequately, if at all.
 #727882  by CJPat
 
hamster wrote:As I've said before, everyone in the state/country/world is a NIMBY depending on what it is that is being put in the BY
In general, this statement can ring true. But definitive differences are drawn between when an "annoyance" was never there versus a pre-existing one that was therebefore they bought their residences. Although an increase in frequency increases a burden on their privacy of which they adapted to previously, they still maintain the responsibility for their original choice to purchase and their assumption that the railway would always be bucolic. Sympathy drops off rapidly for someone who errs in their judgement and then arrogantly defends their position with tired old cliche arguments that have very little truth based roots to cover their mistaken estimate of the future.

That railroad used to be far busier (pre-1960). I have not seen anyone dredge up any reports or old news articles of children being run down or houses being burned to the ground because emergency vehicles couldn't get through. It has been shown in most locations that housing values increase inversely based on their distance to a local rail station. If there is true concern, then fence the ROW in thru Jamesburg, build a couple pedestrian overpasses or tunnels, put in quiet zone crossings.

I recall reading an article regarding the Englishtown Raceway a few miles away. It was addressing the need to further restrict their operating hours because of complaints from the neighbors. I don't recall when the Raceway was built (It was there when I was a kid in the 1960's & '70's). Originally it was built out amongst the farmfields with very few houses around. During summer days, especially on the weekends, the Raceway operated late into the night with the dragsters and funny cars and other top fuel racers making quite a racket, which is why the track specifically located out to the area. Old Bridge was glad to collect the tax revenue from them. As the years went by, people began to develop the fields all around the area with new housing. Soon the new "residents" were complaining about the noise and the "outsiders" that came to the races and the traffic jams they created. Every year Englishtown Raceway seems to have their operating days and hours further restricted until I am certain, that not too far in the distant future, they will shut down operations because it won't be profitable.


My favorite quote came from a "resident" who moved within a 1/2 mile of the raceway a couple of years of when the article was written (around 2002). His comment regarding why he was petitioning to further shutdown the raceway was because even though he was a new resident, he paid taxes and was entitled to change the township in anyway he wanted. And legally, he is correct. It gives you something to ponder about the self-centeredness of some people.
 #727923  by Jtgshu
 
I remember that very article about Raceway Park and its sad, hopefully it won't shut down in the future, but some of the rules that they have are rediculous.

Just like people in a new development complaining about the smell from the adjacent farm.......duh

Some people are never going to be happy
 #727951  by haamster
 
CJPat wrote:But definitive differences are drawn between when an "annoyance" was never there versus a pre-existing one that was therebefore they bought their residences. Although an increase in frequency increases a burden on their privacy of which they adapted to previously, they still maintain the responsibility for their original choice to purchase and their assumption that the railway would always be bucolic.
That's why I used the airport example. Very few people pre-date the airports they live adjacent to or under the flight path of. I like end sentences prepositions to with.
If there is true concern, then fence the ROW in thru Jamesburg, build a couple pedestrian overpasses or tunnels, put in quiet zone crossings.
Exactly. Jamesburg can't afford to run their own town and/or library, they'll never be able to afford such improvements. No one at Transit, the State of New Jersey, or Monmouth/Ocean counties has offered to pay for or even suggest the possibility of such things. What incentive does Jamesburg have? The vast majority of residents are not commuting to New York. All they see is a decrease in quality of life with the gleaming promise of increased property values (something that rings extremely hollow in the present housing market). All I'm suggesting is that the argument is not as one-sided as would appear by just reading posts in this forum.
 #727957  by Jtgshu
 
If Jamesburg said "we will support the line if you put quiet zones in and build a pedestrian overpass" im sure NJT would be like OKAY GREAT!

Both sides are at fault for the impass we are at now, and it could be argued that one side is more guilty than the other, depending on your point of view, of course, but something needs to be done sooner or later. Hopefully NJT can work with the towns along the line to get MOM routed the PROPER way, which would be out through Monmouth Jct, but it really is a shame to see such a useful project being held up by a small group of people. Whats worse, is there doesn't even seem to be any real potential for a discussion for a resolution of the problems and a "meeting of the minds".......

However, I don't see NJT "pushing" their way through either (even though they could), not thorugh Middlesex County - NJT is politial enough, and Middlesex County is quite a machine.......
 #747923  by danny700
 
WIth Christie about to take office in January, will he approach handling the political machine in Middlesex County differently than Corzine on this issue and will he give the clout to NJT get this done (i.e., use eminent domain if need be), regardless of the opposition in Middlesex County? and do the Monmouth Junction route anyway.
 #747928  by Jtgshu
 
danny700 wrote:WIth Christie about to take office in January, will he approach handling the political machine in Middlesex County differently than Corzine on this issue and will he give the clout to NJT get this done (i.e., use eminent domain if need be), regardless of the opposition in Middlesex County? and do the Monmouth Junction route anyway.
Unfortunatetly, I don't think we are gonna see much expansion while Christie is in office, other than the projects already in the Pipeline, with contracts starting to be approved, etc - like the cut off and THE tunnel of course.

I hope im wrong, but for some reason I don't think so.....
 #747958  by lensovet
 
Jtgshu wrote:
danny700 wrote:WIth Christie about to take office in January, will he approach handling the political machine in Middlesex County differently than Corzine on this issue and will he give the clout to NJT get this done (i.e., use eminent domain if need be), regardless of the opposition in Middlesex County? and do the Monmouth Junction route anyway.
Unfortunatetly, I don't think we are gonna see much expansion while Christie is in office, other than the projects already in the Pipeline, with contracts starting to be approved, etc - like the cut off and THE tunnel of course.

I hope im wrong, but for some reason I don't think so.....
hard to tell. his runningmate Kim Guadagno was Monmouth County Sheriff, though, so perhaps we'll see some traction because of that?
 #747960  by Matt Johnson
 
I hope the Cutoff gets extended beyond Andover. The Andover extension really doesn't make a lot of sense by itself.
 #747996  by fishmech
 
Matt Johnson wrote:I hope the Cutoff gets extended beyond Andover. The Andover extension really doesn't make a lot of sense by itself.
It already has been. They've put up requests for bids on contracts beyond Andover already, its just that the Andover extension is already going.
 #764763  by baju
 
I dont know if this is the correct place to post this?? But I found this under the future bike trails for the state. There is a proposal to convert the abandoned line from Farmingdale to Freehold to a bike trail. I guess after Corzine squashed the MOM line connection to Monmouth Juction, plans have drastically changed. I know someone in the state that confirmed this proposal. He told me he doughts that they will ever reactivate the line from Farmingdale to Freehold in our lifetime if ever. The general thought in Trenton is the possibility to run passenger service from Lakehurst to Redbank after the tunnel is built. The main reason as everyone knows is the bad fiscal condition of the state and other priorities such as the major rail projects moving foward in Nothern NJ. Here is a link scroll down to page 4 Allaire to Raritan Bay Greenway......http://www.njtrailsplan.org/pdfs/05_PotentialRoutes.pdf
 #764774  by Jtgshu
 
I wouldn't worry about it too much, that document also mentions a trail from Woodmansie to Winslow on the Southern Secondary, but also mentions that the NJDOT plans "light freight use" and it would be a shared ROW with the trail and railroad......

Not that I wouldn't love to see the Southern Sec rebuilt and reactivated, this seems to be far far far in the future.....

It just seems like they have taken every possible abandoned/OOS Railroad ROW and want to put a trail on it, which is fine, because that at least keeps the ROW intact for possible re-use later on, and both the trails and railroads can co-exist very easily.
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