CTDOT: Hartford Line

Discussion relating to the operations of MTA MetroNorth Railroad including west of Hudson operations and discussion of CtDOT sponsored rail operations such as Shore Line East and the Springfield to New Haven Hartford Line

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Traingeek3629
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by Traingeek3629 » Sun Oct 27, 2019 5:29 pm

You are wrong. Living in Madison for the last 13 years, I can safely say that a huge contingent of the population around here, especially in the summer, is easily categorized as "very wealthy" and we even know two families who are billionaires or very close to it. With the second part...you are stereotyping. And that "some residents near Greenwich do not use Metro North train that much even though it is available" part? Thanks, Captain Obvious. There's a reason I-95 is regularly 2.5 hours from New Haven to New York.
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jxzz
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by jxzz » Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:49 pm

Not totally convinced on this. 1 or 2 billionaire does not change the picture of whole population. Madison started out this second home trend earliest.
Madison somehow built a reputation in NYC metro area as premium upscale second home and retirement dream town at east of New Haven.
Nowadays I think the NYers second home buyers are across all the region, from Guilford, Old Saybrook to New London. I doubt the majority of this group of people that rich compared to that of fairfield county.

njt/mnrrbuff
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by njt/mnrrbuff » Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:25 pm

I wonder if there are a lot of full time NYC residents who might have second homes along the Springfield Line? Probably not too many. I'm sure though that there are people who live in the city and might alternate between working in offices in the city and then in Hartford. If they work consecutive days in the office in Hartford, then they probably have a second home near Hartford so that way they don't have to make the roundtrip a few days in a row. It's about three hours between Manhattan and Hartford by way of Metro North to New Haven and then Ctrail Hartford Line or one of Amtrak's shuttle trains. I don't think many people who have second homes along the Springfield Line would use them for recreational purposes but more so for work.

lordsigma12345
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by lordsigma12345 » Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:13 pm

jxzz wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:46 am
GirlOnTheTrain wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:07 am
I guess you missed all of the crying and complaining when they decimated Shore Line East service for track work. You're not going to rob Peter to pay Paul. The shoreline communities may not have as much population density, but I can guarantee you they have more money and political connections than the average resident of say, Meriden or Wallingford.
Yep, the support on SLE is huge in CT. Population is only one piece of information. For the complain of lack of GCT big board connection info for HL, but SLE info is there. CtDOT said that , yes, HL ridership is higher than SLE, but the ridership of SLE has 10 times more metro north connections than HL ridership.

Historically, more Shoreline residents than Hartford Line residents to continue on Metro North. Further more, there are second home owners of NYers who only live in the weekend in shoreline CT towns, and commute back to the city to live in a crappy rental house during the weekday for jobs. These second home owners are not counted as CT residents, but they are certainly important SLE riders and welcomed population in shoreline communities.
It should also be noted that it's comparing apples to oranges when they compare SLE to HL ridership. Shore Line East may very well have more actual commuter rail ridership than the Hartford Line as CTDOT includes all of Amtrak's ridership along the corridor as "Hartford Line" ridership. To make a fairer comparison to SLE they should only include CTrail ticketed riders and local Amtrak ticketed trips sold at the Hartford Line price (reservations that are contained to the NHV-SPG corridor and do not have legs which go beyond New Haven. Trips with connections at New Haven to other Amtrak service or trips that extend beyond New Haven on the 140 series trains should be considered intercity rail ridership and not included in Hartford Line commuter rail numbers.) They also should not include any Vermonter ridership (and very well may be though I am not sure if they do or not.) SLE ridership is standing on its own as a separate service so its hard to make a direct comparison. If they are simply taking Amtrak's total New Haven - Springfield service line ridership and simply adding CTrail to it they are fudging the numbers.

jxzz
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by jxzz » Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:51 pm

We know the HL ridership include Amtrak Hartford Line tickets. But they should exclude Vermonter as it is not part of that. They also should exclude those who connecting to longer Amtrak trips. But who knows how they did the number.

Due to large population in Hartford/Springfield metro, it should not too surprising that Hartford Line ridership pass SLE at some point.

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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by nomis » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:21 am

Mod Note: This is not Relator.net, southern New England forum ;-)
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nomis
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by nomis » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:29 am

If CTDOT is supporting both the Amtrak Service, and the TASI-ACI service as one concurrent branding, fare structure, and attempting as best a seamless customer experience they can with the two trains, why should the ridership metrics be split apart.

There would not be the (formerly known as) shuttles if it was not for CTDOT subsidizing the service on some level, even before the Hartford Line upgrades and service increase. Vermonter ridership is not in the monthly figures for Hartford Line Service, the source info from the CT Commuter Rail Council, and for this discussion shouldn’t matter since it is a longer distance train and out of the HL view of the state.
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jxzz
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by jxzz » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:19 pm

nomis wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:29 am
If CTDOT is supporting both the Amtrak Service, and the TASI-ACI service as one concurrent branding, fare structure, and attempting as best a seamless customer experience they can with the two trains, why should the ridership metrics be split apart.

There would not be the (formerly known as) shuttles if it was not for CTDOT subsidizing the service on some level, even before the Hartford Line upgrades and service increase. Vermonter ridership is not in the monthly figures for Hartford Line Service, the source info from the CT Commuter Rail Council, and for this discussion shouldn’t matter since it is a longer distance train and out of the HL view of the state.
Agree with you. I am fine with the way CtDot count for CTrail Hartford Line ridership. There might one or two details missed, but overall method is solid.

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JcPinCT
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Podcast Discussion On CTrail Service Including the Hartford Line

Post by JcPinCT » Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:01 pm

The Hartford Courant's "Capitol Watch" podcast discusses rail service in Connecticut, including the Hartford Line.

"Why does it take so long to get from Hartford to NYC by train? CT's DOT commissioner explains."

https://player.fm/series/capitol-watch- ... r-explains

Much talk of infrastructure and delays in capital improvements.

lordsigma12345
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by lordsigma12345 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:07 pm

nomis wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:29 am
If CTDOT is supporting both the Amtrak Service, and the TASI-ACI service as one concurrent branding, fare structure, and attempting as best a seamless customer experience they can with the two trains, why should the ridership metrics be split apart.

There would not be the (formerly known as) shuttles if it was not for CTDOT subsidizing the service on some level, even before the Hartford Line upgrades and service increase. Vermonter ridership is not in the monthly figures for Hartford Line Service, the source info from the CT Commuter Rail Council, and for this discussion shouldn’t matter since it is a longer distance train and out of the HL view of the state.
I'm not saying they should fully separate Amtrak and CTrail ticketed ridership because there would be little value there for the reasons you specified, I just think it would be useful to report both local ridership within the corridor (which would include riders connecting to other commuter services) and intercity ridership into categories. I think it would be useful to know how many local riders there are (which would include CTrail and local Amtrak ticketed riders) when seeing how the service is doing compared to SLE. SLE doesn't have the benefit of also serving intercity on its trains so when using HL numbers to judge SLE I think you should at least look at how many riders on HL are actually local.

As for the Vermonter, you're probably right they probably aren't including it, but the source of my suspicion that they may be is the way Amtrak does its own accounting. Ridership on the Vermonter is assigned to three places depending on endpoints. The Vermonter's own service line only gets credit for trips with an endpoint at stations north of Springfield. The New Haven - Springfield service line (which includes the Amtrak Hartford Line trains and the through regionals) is credited for Vermonter trips if one endpoint is at Springfield, Windsor Locks, Hartford, or Meriden and the other endpoint is at Springfield or any station south of it. And finally trips on the Vermonter where both endpoints are at stations between Washington and New Haven are considered Northeast Regional riders and are reported under that service line. I see why Amtrak accounts it that way, but if say, CTDOT's calculation was just to take Amtrak's service line number and add all CTrail tickets sold to that number it would include some Vermonter ridership. Hopefully they have a deeper access to the ridership on the individual trains and are coming up with a fair number.

Train322
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by Train322 » Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:24 pm

Why is a portion of the platform in Berlin Ct closed?
This includes a section with a ticket machine.
It does not look like they are doing any construction.

They have a sign saying to enter at the tower location.

jxzz
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by jxzz » Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:35 pm

Train322 wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:24 pm
Why is a portion of the platform in Berlin Ct closed?
This includes a section with a ticket machine.
It does not look like they are doing any construction.

They have a sign saying to enter at the tower location.
I noticed that too when I used Berlin station in the summer time. Maybe out of safety concern? That portion is outside of station and close to track. They may not want riders to walk cross track to short cut the walk.

gregorygrice
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by gregorygrice » Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:01 pm

😂😂😂

Traingeek3629
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by Traingeek3629 » Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:02 am

According to the CT Rail Council's ridership report from September, HL averaged 2,330 riders per weekday. That number is incredible and far above projections. SLE has made a decent rebound and I expect the growth to continue for both lines. SLE averaged almost 1000 riders each weekend day, which shows that people along the Shoreline use the train outside of commuting. Hartford Line averaged 1,165 for each weekend day. These ridership numbers, mainly for the Hartford Line but also for SLE on weekends, are really impressing me and I hope it leads to further improved service.
TRAIN APPROACHING, PLEASE REMAIN BEHIND THE YELLOW LINE

jxzz
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Post by jxzz » Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:09 pm

Hartford Line and Shore Line East now share the same logo in New Haven Union Station big board:

Nick Addamo twitted a photo of big board in New Haven Union Station:
https://twitter.com/NickAddamo/status/1 ... 3558695936

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