Metro North Issues Speed Restrictions

[DutchRailnut]

My blame is with MN's own Geometry train, Did someone fudge the numbers, it sure looks that way..
Get your popcorn and watch NTSB hearings on Oct 21 and 22, I sure hope they will be on internet.
Can't wait to see some , wiggling and squirming out of those that are invited to testify.

[Clean Cab]

I'm sure a lot of MN officials are already clearing out their desks and altering their resumes in anticipation of the wrath the FRA is almost certainly going let loose on MN.

[BenH]

My blame is with MN's own Geometry train, Did someone fudge the numbers, it sure looks that way..
Get your popcorn and watch NTSB hearings on Oct 21 and 22, I sure hope they will be on internet.
Can't wait to see some , wiggling and squirming out of those that are invited to testify.

Live and archived copies of all NTSB hearings can be found on this web link:
http://stream.capitolconnection.org/cap ... b/ntsb.htm
(the archived copies remain on-line for a period of 3 months).

It'll be very interesting to see the full NTSB Docket for this accident. The docket includes every piece of factual information that was collected during the investigation.

e.g. here's a link to the NTSB Docket from the Metrolink accident back in September 2008:
http://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/hitli ... N=12679739

[NHAirLine]

I wonder if the increased weight of the M7/8s along with the increased scheduling affected track that couldn't take that abuse. I definitely noticed a rougher ride the last year or so.

Well look at the section where the train crashed... it was down to two tracks with ever heavier trains running over those two tracks... There seem to be a lot of sections down to two tracks. My joke is that MN has 4 tracks so that they can close two to work on them, and then put a few sections down to one on the weekends to do even more work...

Isn't this going to create a cascade of schedule changes down the entire NEC because of Amtrak?

Did the mighty New Haven keep up with track maintenance when they were running a far higher volume of traffic over the line, including the big freights from Oak Point up to Cedar Hill?

Will the NTSB look at the accident more kindly since there were no casualties? Or do they look at it from a technical perspective? I just have a hard time blaming MN, even if they have a lot of other track issues, that just seemed like a freak accident and a really bad time and place for it to happen...

[RearOfSignal]

Will the NTSB look at the accident more kindly since there were no casualties?

I certainly hope not, what sense does that make?

Or do they look at it from a technical perspective? I just have a hard time blaming MN, even if they have a lot of other track issues, that just seemed like a freak accident and a really bad time and place for it to happen...

Bad time, bad place, yes and no. But from what has already rumbled around the RR on these incidents this is a systematic failure to repair and maintain the tracks. Not a freak accident. Unfortunately this is what it takes for MNR to clean up its act.

[NHAirLine]

I certainly hope not, what sense does that make?

Bad time, bad place, yes and no. But from what has already rumbled around the RR on these incidents this is a systematic failure to repair and maintain the tracks. Not a freak accident. Unfortunately this is what it takes for MNR to clean up its act.

It makes sense that fatal accidents are a lot worse than non-fatal ones. That one was a mess for the railroad, but no one was killed...

I have a really tough time blaming MN for this one, even though I am normally very, very quick to assign blame. How the heck are you supposed to inspect and detect cracking or other metallurgical problems in joint bars that are that small over hundreds upon hundreds of track-miles? Yes, they have to inspect track, check geometry, etc, etc, but that's a tough one. It was a really bad place to have a crash, as there are only two tracks there. But that's probably what caused it. They were running double the traffic volume over each track, including the fat as a pig Acela and the morbidly obese M-8's. Heavier and heavier trains can't be helping things...

[DutchRailnut]

all I can say is get your popcorn and watch NTSB hearings October 21/22 its gone be interesting.

[NHAirLine]

all I can say is get your popcorn and watch NTSB hearings October 21/22 its gone be interesting.

We'll see...

[RearOfSignal]

I have a really tough time blaming MN for this one, even though I am normally very, very quick to assign blame. How the heck are you supposed to inspect and detect cracking or other metallurgical problems in joint bars that are that small over hundreds upon hundreds of track-miles? Yes, they have to inspect track, check geometry, etc, etc, but that's a tough one. It was a really bad place to have a crash, as there are only two tracks there. But that's probably what caused it. They were running double the traffic volume over each track, including the fat as a pig Acela and the morbidly obese M-8's. Heavier and heavier trains can't be helping things...

This is what we've been saying from the beginning none of this is new... MNR failed to properly inspect, repair and maintain its tracks for years. That's why MNR is being forced by the FRA to fix this stuff now. FRA has gone over MNR inspection records and seen deficiencies. I won't post details here because some info I've heard has been from other MNR guys here and I won't post others' words if they won't themselves, that's not right.

But I clearly remember it being said on this forum before the schedule changes last spring and fall, that MNR would add so many trains that track inspection and maintenance would suffer. Recent events seem to speak for themselves in this matter.

So yes, we'll see.

[NHAirLine]

I have a really tough time blaming MN for this one, even though I am normally very, very quick to assign blame. How the heck are you supposed to inspect and detect cracking or other metallurgical problems in joint bars that are that small over hundreds upon hundreds of track-miles? Yes, they have to inspect track, check geometry, etc, etc, but that's a tough one. It was a really bad place to have a crash, as there are only two tracks there. But that's probably what caused it. They were running double the traffic volume over each track, including the fat as a pig Acela and the morbidly obese M-8's. Heavier and heavier trains can't be helping things...

This is what we've been saying from the beginning none of this is new... MNR failed to properly inspect, repair and maintain its tracks for years. That's why MNR is being forced by the FRA to fix this stuff now. FRA has gone over MNR inspection records and seen deficiencies. I won't post details here because some info I've heard has been from other MNR guys here and I won't post others' words if they won't themselves, that's not right.

But I clearly remember it being said on this forum before the schedule changes last spring and fall, that MNR would add so many trains that track inspection and maintenance would suffer. Recent events seem to speak for themselves in this matter.

So yes, we'll see.

I'm not doubting that maintenance has suffered, especially with so many tracks out for major construction, which could make it harder to work on the two remaining ones, in addition to them having more traffic than ever, heavier trains than ever and putting Acelas on local tracks where they don't normally run (since they are down to two tracks in several places). That being said, in the case of specific problem that caused the wreck, I don't see how you could inspect every joiner bar for cracking at that small of a level to have caught something like that...

[lirr42]

I'm not doubting that maintenance has suffered, especially with so many tracks out for major construction, which could make it harder to work on the two remaining ones, in addition to them having more traffic than ever, heavier trains than ever and putting Acelas on local tracks where they don't normally run (since they are down to two tracks in several places). That being said, in the case of specific problem that caused the wreck, I don't see how you could inspect every joiner bar for cracking at that small of a level to have caught something like that...

Other railroads have managed to handle track inspections on equally busy segments of track without having two M8's plow into each other. And I don't see how putting Acelas on local tracks makes any difference...Aclea Express trains go no faster than M2's on Metro-North.

[RearOfSignal]

I'm not doubting that maintenance has suffered, especially with so many tracks out for major construction, which could make it harder to work on the two remaining ones, in addition to them having more traffic than ever, heavier trains than ever and putting Acelas on local tracks where they don't normally run (since they are down to two tracks in several places). That being said, in the case of specific problem that caused the wreck, I don't see how you could inspect every joiner bar for cracking at that small of a level to have caught something like that...

Other railroads have managed to handle track inspections on equally busy segments of track without having two M8's plow into each other. And I don't see how putting Acelas on local tracks makes any difference...Aclea Express trains go no faster than M2's on Metro-North.

Every few months we get someone who makes 50 posts in 2 weeks on weird ideas and we never hear from them again. Or maybe it's the same guy!!!

[NHAirLine]

I'm not doubting that maintenance has suffered, especially with so many tracks out for major construction, which could make it harder to work on the two remaining ones, in addition to them having more traffic than ever, heavier trains than ever and putting Acelas on local tracks where they don't normally run (since they are down to two tracks in several places). That being said, in the case of specific problem that caused the wreck, I don't see how you could inspect every joiner bar for cracking at that small of a level to have caught something like that...

Other railroads have managed to handle track inspections on equally busy segments of track without having two M8's plow into each other. And I don't see how putting Acelas on local tracks makes any difference...Aclea Express trains go no faster than M2's on Metro-North.

Weight.

[DutchRailnut]

Weight, how many trains did you ever operate??? where does your supposed Knowledge come from?? so far I see a lot of off the wall Idea's from someone who knows diddly squat!!!

[Clean Cab]

Weight of cars and engines has nothing to do with the concrete ties failing. Poor drainage is the culprit.