MBTA Ordered to Resume Bag Searches

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MBTA3247
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Post by MBTA3247 » Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:13 pm

danib62 wrote:I have no problem with the swab tests that the MBTA police are going to be doing. Remember that the goal of bag checks is not to find bombs but to serve as a deterent so someone wouldn't try to bring a bomb along in the first place. You don't need to to screen every bag to be a viable detterent. Checking random bags at random locations at random times serves this purpose fine.
I don't think a system that lets the vast majority of bags go uninspected is much of a deterrent. All bin Laden has to do is send a handful of people to the same station at roughly the same time and he's guaranteed to get most or all of them into the subway undetected until it's too late to stop them.

When "doing something" is no more effective than doing nothing (except at making the terrorists laugh), you're better off finding another use for the money.
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bbfen
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Post by bbfen » Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:39 pm

sabourinj wrote:
Are you willing to pay more taxes or even higher fares to get the funds to hire extra officers? Keep in mind the MBTA is already trying to merge their police with the State Police to become more effective at patrolling.
It occurs to me that we have plenty of officers -- if only they'd get out of their damn cars and actually, you know, be IN the stations, riding the trains, etc.

Perhaps this is Mitt's way of forcing them to do just that: their job.

danib62
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Post by danib62 » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:09 pm

jamesinclair wrote:
danib62 wrote:I have no problem with the swab tests that the MBTA police are going to be doing. Remember that the goal of bag checks is not to find bombs but to serve as a deterent so someone wouldn't try to bring a bomb along in the first place. You don't need to to screen every bag to be a viable detterent. Checking random bags at random locations at random times serves this purpose fine.
I disagree.

Terrorist brings bomg into station.
Officer stops him to check bag
Terrorist says "oh *" and detonates bomb.


Oh wait, looks like he got what he wanted. Officer couldnt do a thing to stop it.
Well what do you suggest? We search out on the street. Terrorist says "oh *" and blows up all the people around him at the security checkpoint on the street. Do you suggest that an officer has to come to your home to let you out in the morning because that would seem the only way to prevent someone from getting blown up.
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octr202
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Post by octr202 » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:10 pm

stevefoley wrote:
Robert Paniagua wrote:Well, they said that even after the second London bombings, that they MBTA wouldn't do bag searches unless it received a specific thread.
Yeah, and the only specific threat is to his lieutenent gov's job, so he thinks that "reminding" us of the so called "war on terror" will frighten us into somehow voting for her. Nice job Mutt.
Bingo. call me cynical, but this comes right in the middle of Healy's "soft on crime" push in the campaign. The Globe article stated the court ruling in NY was in August, and this just comes out now. Hmmm...

I hope I haven't done too much to push this into the realm of unallowed discussion. I just can't help but wonder if T riders are being taken for a ride for political purposes.
Wondering if I'll see the Haverhill double-tracking finished before I retire...
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NealG
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Post by NealG » Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:01 pm

What a waste of police resources and fare/taxpayer money. Meanwhile stations go unpatrolled, smokers light up, people get shot, mugged, robbed etc., litter builds up in the trains, breakdowns increase, service deteriorates. I'll bet that they'll never find anything. Note that it is the governor is ordering this, not the MBTA GM or police chief. This is an obvious political stunt.

GP40MC 1116
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Post by GP40MC 1116 » Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:32 pm

Just currious, Is it only "Legal" for a Local town/ State or Transit Police Officer to search your bag. I have no issue with that no problem whatsoever.

NOt saying ive seen it done, but MBTA CSA's/Inspectors don't have any authority to do so correct?

I wanted to make sure I understook the legal stuff correctly..lol

GP40MC 1116
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Post by GP40MC 1116 » Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:34 pm

NealG wrote:What a waste of police resources and fare/taxpayer money. Meanwhile stations go unpatrolled, smokers light up, people get shot, mugged, robbed etc., litter builds up in the trains, breakdowns increase, service deteriorates. I'll bet that they'll never find anything. Note that it is the governor is ordering this, not the MBTA GM or police chief. This is an obvious political stunt.

I hate to say it, but since the MBTA is a "Authority"under the State of MA, when the Gov says something, you have to do it, no if's and's buts about it.

We all know politics are arround everywhere, but personally i dont mind seeing them search bags, it's better than their resourses or time going to waste.

MBTA F40PH-2C 1050
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Post by MBTA F40PH-2C 1050 » Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:47 pm

there was MBTA police w/ dogs searching trains in Mansfield,

on the other subject:

Police need to search trains, people are probably going to bi*ch now, but if something happens to a passenger train, then people are goin to ask y wasn't more done to help i have nothing to hide, so i can be searched anytime
Last edited by MBTA F40PH-2C 1050 on Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

GP40MC 1116
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Post by GP40MC 1116 » Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:52 pm

MBTA F40PH-2C 1050 wrote:there was MBTA police w/ dogs searching trains in Mansfield,

on the other subject:

Police need to search trains, people me bi*ch now, but if something happens to a passenger train, then people are goin to ask y wasn't more done to help i have nothing to hide, so i can be searched anytime
I agree 100 percent. Railroad safety as well as Transit safety needs to be something we look at. Now, personally i don't think it needs to go to the extreme as airlines have, but we need to be vigulant and on top of things, so we are prepared for what is going on. Im not a Mass taxpayer, but since i work arround the system on a weekly basis, I care what goes on alot!

b&m 1566
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Post by b&m 1566 » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:42 pm

NealG wrote:What a waste of police resources and fare/taxpayer money. Meanwhile stations go unpatrolled, smokers light up, people get shot, mugged, robbed etc., litter builds up in the trains, breakdowns increase, service deteriorates. I'll bet that they'll never find anything. Note that it is the governor is ordering this, not the MBTA GM or police chief. This is an obvious political stunt.
Personally being in the Law enforcement field myself you can never be too safe. I don't think it’s a waste of money in fact I would rather see a train break down because of insufficient funds taken away in order to have a safer ride. Having a gunman walk on to a train and wipe out an entire car or even blow up a train is a serious matter, forget about the cigarette smokers. Let's not forget what happen 5 years ago and also remember that even though we have "yet" to have a train incident in this country, other countries are not so lucky.
Now do I agree with how the T and the state government are going about doing it? Not really, but you’ve got to start somewhere. You can’t check every bag we all not that; if something like that was to happen then it would be not different than an airport. They are trying to deter that acts of criminal behavior. Though it’s 1 out of every 5 people that get searched (going by example), to some people that may not seem to be enough but to someone who’s about to commit a crime that’s almost too much. Just keep in mind that someone who is planning a crime is going to be a little edgy and nervous among other things.
MBTA F40PH-2C 1050 wrote:there was MBTA police w/ dogs searching trains in Mansfield,

on the other subject:

Police need to search trains, people me bi*ch now, but if something happens to a passenger train, then people are goin to ask y wasn't more done to help i have nothing to hide, so i can be searched anytime
You couldn’t have said that any better.

jamesinclair
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Post by jamesinclair » Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:03 pm

MBTA F40PH-2C 1050 wrote:
Police need to search trains, people me bi*ch now, but if something happens to a passenger train, then people are goin to ask y wasn't more done to help i have nothing to hide, so i can be searched anytime
People will simply bitch about why the police searches didnt prevent the attack. Since we all know its just a show.

GP40MC 1116
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Post by GP40MC 1116 » Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:06 pm

jamesinclair wrote:
MBTA F40PH-2C 1050 wrote:
Police need to search trains, people me bi*ch now, but if something happens to a passenger train, then people are goin to ask y wasn't more done to help i have nothing to hide, so i can be searched anytime
People will simply bitch about why the police searches didnt prevent the attack. Since we all know its just a show.
Public Saftey isn't a "show" Sorry....

Comming from a public service background, since im in the Fire Service. We don't just get on the truck and say "Ohh well we won't go it's just another false alarm"

The world is different as it was 5 years ago, so things that were done/or not done back then are comming back and are more standardized. We have to adapt to change, and change is something that will happen. As i stated before railroad safety and transit safety is a VITAL and NESSISARY item to be protected We need to stay ahead, not behind :-D

Sh0dan

Post by Sh0dan » Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:32 pm

Well what do you suggest? We search out on the street. Terrorist says "oh *" and blows up all the people around him at the security checkpoint on the street. Do you suggest that an officer has to come to your home to let you out in the morning because that would seem the only way to prevent someone from getting blown up.
He didn't suggest anything. He was pointing out that it's completely useless. You've just proven his point; it's impossible to effectively deter a suicide bomber. It's the job of the FBI and other national agencies to catch them before they acquire the materials they need (note what happened in England recently; they were stopped before ever getting on the planes)

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Post by Pete » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:18 pm

GP40MC 1116 wrote:I hate to say it, but since the MBTA is a "Authority"under the State of MA, when the Gov says something, you have to do it, no if's and's buts about it.
How did you arrive at this interpretation of the law?

The MBTA's status as an "authority" in this sense indicates only that it is a quasi-public corporation charged with a specific mandate, not subject to local control, and independent of the Commonwealth in a fiduciary sense for bonding purposes. "Authority" should not be mistaken for some sort of all-powerful ruling body.

Much like the MBTA, the governor holds only certain specific powers granted by the constitution of the Commonwealth, at the pleasure of the electorate, to enforce that constitution. This does not give him supreme authority to abridge the constitutional rights of individuals. I hold title to all "ifs," "ands," and "buts" that the constitution does not specifically deny me.

I am free to *not* consent to the searches and leave the system. In fact, if asked to be searched, this is precisely what I plan on doing. It was well documented in 2004 that those declining consent would be asked to leave. I'm fine with that. The great majority of my trips are faster by bicycle. However the MBTA thinks it best to make up the small amount of lost revenue is fine by me. As the bumper stickers someone should make should say, freedom is worth more than $1.25.

I agree wholeheartedly with the many people here who see through this as a cynical ploy by an administration trying to promote its top two officials to higher offices. It is consistent with their overall approach across the board in the recent past. Keeping people in a state of panic for political gain is fearmongering at its worst, as it ultimately will needlessly hasten complacency, and endanger everyone more. It is shameful behavior.
Last edited by Pete on Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

stevefoley

Post by stevefoley » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:19 pm

GP40MC 1116 wrote:
jamesinclair wrote:
MBTA F40PH-2C 1050 wrote:
The world is different as it was 5 years ago, so things that were done/or not done back then are comming back and are more standardized. We have to adapt to change, and change is something that will happen. As i stated before railroad safety and transit safety is a VITAL and NESSISARY item to be protected We need to stay ahead, not behind :-D
Five years ago, 19 nutcases took advantage of pathetic airline security and made a big splash. Even a nutty group like Aum Shinriko could have pulled it off. But instead of treating these idiots for what they were, politicians have exploited the peoples fears to the point at which the threat is now so overstated its ridiculous.

Let the security services hunt down the nuts. And let us go about our lives. If we're talking about "Public Safety" there are much greater threats to it on the railroads than nutty terrorists.

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