Railroad Forums 

Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

Moderator: Liquidcamphor

 #1063757  by lirr42
 
Every day for the past 3 years I have had the pleasure of taking the train to and from work ...all the way from Montauk 118 miles to Long Island City...and back. I live about 5 minutes away from Montauk station and I've had some questions that I've been wondering about lately:

Montauk Yard
When is it used? I see it filled on summer weekends and other occasions (I live just south and east of the station, so I don't pass by it too much) but I don't know when it's used outside that time.

Babylon or Central?
My inbound train uses the Central Branch to get the Mainline 99% of the time, as it stops at Hicksville and Mineola (it's always interesting when the train gets diverted down the Babylon Branch, but that doesn't happen all too often). My outbound train makes it's first stop at Bay Shore and usually takes the Babylon Branch. However, sometimes we are sent down the Mainline/Central branch. What gives? I imagine if there were delays/problems on one line they would just send us down the other. How much flexibility do they have as far as routing the trains? Can they slide a Montauk train in on either one of the branches relativity easily or do they only switch a train when they absolutely have to?

Meets
Where do train meets occur along the line? I know of trains that meet east of Mastic Shirley, but I was wondering where else it occurred in single-track territory.

Freight
On some very rare occasions I might see sometimes some freight cars sitting in the yard (sort of like in this picture). I haven't seen too much lately out here, though. What are these cars for? I don't believe NYAR has a customer out this far.

Train 2712
This train used to run every day and it was great if I wanted to sneak out form work early (I could get home by 8). It was the 4:30pm Hunterspoint Av Departure, now it's been bumped to Fridays only during the summer. This train went away around September 2010, so I assume it went with all of those budget cuts that were happening around that time.

Track Information Monitors
How are they set up as far as when they come on and when they go off? When I pass by the station (and all of the other east end stations) in one of the gaps in service I'll see these monitors off, showing nothing. But every time I show up at the station getting on/off the train, I find them on. Do they come on x amount of minutes before a train comes?

The Cannonball Going West
What happens to the Cannonball when it finally gets to Montauk? Is it (A) deadheaded back to Speonk/Babylon/Jamaica, (B) sent back on Sunday as one long train, or (C) split up into 2 trains and sent back on Sundays? In the off-season I'll take the winter version of the Cannonball (which some of my friends and I have nicknamed the Snowball) home early on Friday during the winter and it doesn't run the full 12 car set at that point. (I wish they'd run 2708, the 1:49pm Hunterspoint Av departure year-round too, I love that train in the summer)

Train 2705
Is this Monday-morning only train peak or off-peak? It arrives Hunterspoint Avenue at 9:57a, but the connections don't arrive until 10:05a/10:29a, so that leads me to believe it's off-peak, kinda like the Cannonball's connections leaving before 4p, making that train off-peak. It doesn't really matter to me, as I have my $500 monthly, but wondering out of curiosity.

C3 Outlets?
My battery life is currently degrading to the point where it will no longer last the entire ride. Are there outlets in the C3 cars that I could charge my laptop with? I presume because I can't see them in any of the obvious places that there are none for passengers to use, but I was just wondering anyway. (I'll just have to remember to print stuff out before I leave my house!)

Any of these questions you could answer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
 #1063764  by Amtrak7
 
As luck would have it, I took 2703 in from Hicksville this morning. What I'm surprised at is how little time this train gets between Sayville and Babylon. It shows up at Hicksville either late or at the outer edge of the 5:59 tolerance every day.

1) Montauk Yard isn't used much outside summer weekends, last I remember.
2) It's not that hard to move from the Babylon to the Main Line because the Main Line is "throated" during the rush hour. The PM peak Montauk run gets to Jamaica after the throating is over, though.
3) Meets east of Sayville occur at Mastic-Shirley, Westhampton, Southampton, and Bridgehampton.
4) NYAR runs as far as Bridgehampton. Anything in Montauk is likely LIRR work equipment.
5) Yes this train was cut in the 2010 service cuts.
6) Not a clue.
7) The 2004 ETT shows two Saturday-only, summer-only deadheads from Montauk: a 1:19AM to Jamaica and a 2:32AM to Speonk. Not sure what equipment it is.
8) It's off peak, per the tariff.

A question for you...

About how many passengers are on this train when it pulls into Speonk? Where do they get on (if most get on at one stop?)
 #1063773  by lirr42
 
Amtrak7 wrote:About how many passengers are on this train when it pulls into Speonk? Where do they get on (if most get on at one stop?)
A fair amount, not all that many making the entire trip though. A good few people get off that train at Babylon/Hicksville/Mineola and transfer for intra-island trains.

Most get on at either East Hampton or Southampton, but it's maybe 10-15 people at each of those. It's just me, my wife, and 3 other guys who ride the AM peak run from Montauk. I'm the only one who goes the whole way. Of the three guys, one gets off at Babylon, one at Hicksville, and the other at Jamaica. My wife gets off at Hunterspoint Av and takes the subway from there. On some occasions (bad weather, middle of the week in February) I will be the only one left on the train after Hunterspoint.

Thanks for your response.
 #1063808  by SwingMan
 
2703 gets a good sized crowd for Mineola, as does 2772/2778.


To be honest, I was surprised when they took 2712 off the schedule. That train gave people a better way to get out east earlier. I feel for people like you that have little leeway in sleep, etc.

In a perfect world, I think they'd turn 2734 into a more express type train to Montauk, and just a shorter local that doesn't have half the train off east of Babylon. Of course this can't happen the way the equipment rolls, so it can only be made up in a dream.

The Cannonball (Snowball in the winter, good nickname) is really just odd. They choose not to expand that option to year-round, even if they don't do much of anything in the winter season.

If the railroad really cared about the east end, then the Main Line east of KO would've been better equipped for long trains, and the Montauk would have more service. But they do what is just adequate enough to still have it, yet not shut it down.
 #1063814  by Backshophoss
 
The C-3's were built before the "smartphone era" and the "NEED" of seat side 110 vac outlets.
Your conductor/"brakeman"(A/C) should know if outlets are avaible and where they are "hidden"
 #1063819  by Amtrak7
 
2712's 2009 non-summer ridership was 160 west of Jamaica/260 east on a consist of 3 C3's.
2734's 2011 non-summer ridership is 730 west/620 west on the standard 8 car DM consist.

On 2703 this morning around 4 passengers exited at Mineola using the particular vestibule that I was standing in.
 #1064289  by MACTRAXX
 
LIRR42: Interesting post and observations from being one of the LIRR's longest distance commuters...
I figured that some may commute from Montauk...a 228 mile round trip from Long Island City...

You spend a good portion of your day riding the C3 equipment across the length of Long Island each day...
The current Monthly price of $429 is practically like paying rent...

You mention your morning westbound and afternoon eastbound trains and if they use the Central Branch...
I recall being told that those trains make better time going via the electrified Babylon Branch instead
of via Hicksville over the Main Line if it was not for the heavy MU train traffic on that line...

One thing that the LIRR has never done is used the terms "Inbound " and "Outbound"...
The LIRR is strictly an "Eastbound" or "Westbound" railroad...
I realize those terms are used elsewhere-like the blatant overuse of those terms in Boston...
I dislike using those terms because in cases what is "In" to one person is "Out" to another...

I recall using some of the busy weekend Montauk Branch trains in the past...Sunday afternoons in particular...
I do wonder why the LIRR still does not offer at least one train using the DM30s thru to Penn Station noting
how train 2714 runs through of Friday afternoons offering that option...It would offer the option of not
having to change at Jamaica for what could become a very busy train for the Sunday rush...

This topic bring back good LIRR memories from the Summer of 1982 and 1983...
My father at the time was commuting from Zone 10-Ronkonkoma and I came up with an idea to
"share" his Monthly Ticket and ride out east to learn more about the LIRR...The Main Line from
Ronkonkoma to Greenport and the Montauk Branch E of Sayville-the limits of what was Zone 10
was my object...The Zone 10 Monthly price was then $112 and the Zone 14 Monthly price was
$139.75 my father asked me to pay the difference of $27.75 along with a stern warning that
if anything happened to the ticket I would pay for any replacement...

In July of 1982 and 1983 we purchased a Monthly ticket to Montauk and I got to use the ticket to travel
on weekends in particular and during some vacation time he took off during those months each year up
to 5-7 consecutive days during those months...We were both careful sharing the ticket and other then
a couple of inquisite looks by train crew members we had no problems...

I took train rides to both Montauk and Greenport during those months and I learned about interesting
towns to stop in like East Hampton and Southampton on the Montauk Branch and especially the E end
terminals of Montauk and Greenport...I learned a lot about the East End and the LIRR operations there
back then...

I remember using the Sunday afternoon "Cannonball" which was the premium train back then and
riding on the rear platform of other trains using the 2900 series PS cars...It could be quite a ride...

Beginning in 1984 the Zone 14 Monthly fare began to rise considerably and I did not repeat using a
Monthly to travel out east...I have only purchased one 14 Weekly back around 1990 and other then
odd trips at times do not travel out East too often any more...

MACTRAXX
 #1064971  by lirr42
 
Many thanks for all the replies!
lirr42 wrote:Train 2712
This train used to run every day and it was great if I wanted to sneak out form work early (I could get home by 8). It was the 4:30pm Hunterspoint Av Departure, now it's been bumped to Fridays only during the summer. This train went away around September 2010, so I assume it went with all of those budget cuts that were happening around that time.
Actually, Train 2712 (4:30 HPA departure) is actually going to run Monday-Friday all summer next year (I just wish it ran in the winter too!)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What's the main reason for not adding more trains out east? No money? Equipment? Low ridership? Track capacity? Crew/equipment manipulations?
 #1066934  by LINYARailfan
 
What time and days do meets occur at in Westhampton Southampton and Bridgehampton? Do they occur on the weekends only, or during the week also? Do they occur in the summer only or year round also? Any information will be helpful? Thanks.
 #1067009  by JKTRR
 
Reference meets on the Montauk line: Grab the branch timetable and do some plotting of traintimes. (There used to be the "famous" meet at Southampton about 200pm on Sundays that dictated a timetable note to passengers to make sure they stayed off the tracks and board the right train! Shortening of the passing siding to (now just) east of the high-level platform has changed that!!) Was out there in the early 2000's and saw three one Friday night between Hampton Bays and Montauk!!
 #1067165  by lirr42
 
Beginning this Sunday (7/29) a new Sunday-only train will depart from Amagansett at 2:55pm, making local stops through Speonk, then non-stop to Jamiaca, terminating there.
In an e-mail, LIRR's Customer Advisory System wrote:The LIRR is adding a westbound train from Amagansett starting Sunday, July 29. The new Sunday train will depart from Amagansett at 2:55 PM, making local stops through Speonk, then express to Jamaica for connecting service to all points west.
Why does this train start up at Amagansett? My guess is that the train comes from Montauk Yard so in order for it to receive passengers at Montauk it would have to make a reverse move into the station.

Also, is that the logic for having 8799 (12:38pm Southampton departure) and 8707 (4:33pm Bridgehampton Departure) start up west of Montauk instead of Montauk?
 #1067179  by lirr42
 
LINYARailfan wrote:What time and days do meets occur at in Westhampton Southampton and Bridgehampton? Do they occur on the weekends only, or during the week also? Do they occur in the summer only or year round also? Any information will be helpful? Thanks.
JKTRR wrote:Reference meets on the Montauk line: Grab the branch timetable and do some plotting of traintimes. (There used to be the "famous" meet at Southampton about 200pm on Sundays that dictated a timetable note to passengers to make sure they stayed off the tracks and board the right train! Shortening of the passing siding to (now just) east of the high-level platform has changed that!!) Was out there in the early 2000's and saw three one Friday night between Hampton Bays and Montauk!!
So on my way home today I was looking at the Montauk public timetable and I found these 3 meets that occur east of Speonk:

~~SUMMER FRIDAYS ONLY~~ Train 2709 (2:41p Montauk Departure) meets Train 2708 (1:49p Hunterspoint Av Departure) at HAMPTON BAYS at 3:44pm
  1. 3:44pm, 2709 (westbound) enters and loads at Hampton Bays. Then it uses the crossover just west of the station to enter ND siding.
  • 3:50pm, 2708 (eastbound) arrives on the main track, stops and loads at Hampton Bays, then proceeds east.
  • 3:50pm, after 2708 passes east, 2709 (westbound) switches back to main track and departs west.


**WEEKDAYS** Train 2711(10:38p Montauk Departure) meets Train 2720 (8:53p Jamaica Departure) at BRIDGEAMPTON at 11:09pm
  1. 11:09pm, 2720 (eastbound) arrives and loads at Bridgehampton. Then it proceeds east and enters BH siding just east of the station.
  • 11:15pm, 2711 (westbound) arrives on the main track, stops and loads at Bridgehampton, then proceeds west.
  • 11:15pm, after 2720 passes west, 2720 (eastbound) switches back to main track and departs east.


^^SUMMER SUNDAYS ONLY^^ Train 8703 (1:23pm Montauk Departure) meets Train 8710 (12:10 Jamaica Departure) at SOUTHAMPTON at 2:09pm
  1. 2:09pm, 8710 (eastbound) enters and loads at Southampton. Then it uses the crossover just east of the station to enter SN siding.
  • 2:16pm, 8703 (westbound) arrives on the main track, stops and loads at Sounthampton, then proceeds west.
  • 2:16pm, after 8710 passes west, 8703 (eastbound) switches back to main track and departs east.


That last one sounds like the one Mr. JKTRR mentioned. Did I miss any?