workextra wrote:The overall with of the route would need winding and guard rails installed to prevent a bus from rolling off into their yards.
Also no bus will be able to clear at any speed greater then 20mph any of the bridges on the abandoned section.
Not that I'm for a busway, but what exactly would require the buses to slow down for the bridges that wouldn't require the trains to slow down for them? If it's width, the bridges can be replaced if necessary (How wide are the trackways on the bridges?). You'd be surprised how fast us bus drivers go through some narrow spots...it's kinda fun
Also, why would it need guard rails to prevent the bus from rolling off? If the bus is staying in its lane, where the hell else is it going? And where on the ROW would need widening? Buses are narrower than rail cars last I checked.
workextra wrote:Returning LIRR to the rockaway park will have profound benifits of those commuters with a direct connection to the sort train, Atlantic branch fornservce to Brooklyn and points east. As well as their expressway to New York with the "rock" not tying into the main line till the Win curve.
workextra wrote:The rockaway beach branch until you reach Hammals is all in zone 1. So the fare is not that much higher for those commuters.
workextra wrote:At Hammals, if you go rockaway park, it's zone 1 and far rock it's done 3, with far rock being zone 3. (City terminal)
Current subway fare is $2.75 vs $6.00 off peak/$8.25 peak for LIRR within zone 1 (with no free transfer to the subway). Zone 3 to 1 is currently $7.25 off peak, $10.00 peak. That is a huge difference on all levels! If service to the Rockaways was to be reverted back to the LIRR, an entirely new fare structure would have to be implemented. What I would do is split the current zone 1 Queens and Brooklyn stations into a new Zone 2. Leave NYP and GCT as Zone 1 on their own. Leave Zone 3 stops as is. Single ride fares are equivalent to the subway (currently $2.75) for travel within the same zone, travel to the adjacent zone is the equivalent of city ticket (currently $4.25), and travel between zones 1 and 3 is the equivalent of the express bus fare (currently $6.50). Even that though, would probably be a heavy burden for a large percentage of the Rockaways. And assuming the Van Wyck Expressway is the dividing line between Zone 3 and current zone 1 (new zone 2), extending that line down to the Rockaways puts Beach 25th St and Mott Av in Zone 3, so they're still stuck with an increase of more than double the current subway fare. On the monthly level it's not nearly as bad, but you're still looking at $116.50 for a monthly Metrocard vs $184 for a zone 1 monthly and $218 for a zone 3-1 monthly, an increase of $67.50-$101.50 per month. A large part of the Rockaways is filled with people living on public assistance (city housing, etc) and would not be able to afford an increase like that, especially those who would fall in zone 3.
workextra wrote:And a special rockaway pinsular ticket validly all day between the short stops (city ticket)
$4.25 for LIRR within the Rockaways vs $2.75 for the Q22, or whatever the dollar vans charge now? You won't be seeing anyone riding within the Rockaways at that comparison.
workextra wrote:Tickets sold to New York could have resident pricing options as well.
And who is going to cover the loss to the LIRR? This is the same thing as when some council person suggested subway fare on all LIRR stops in city limits.
workextra wrote:A creative adjustment could also result in service via the lower Montauk then swing onto the rock for service east or west.
This creates a bypass to the mainline between Jay and Win. and would get them out of jams.
How on earth does the Lower Montauk offer an alt for the mainline between Jay and Win? The Lower Montauk does not connect with the East River Tubes nor does it connect to the 63rd St tunnel for GCT.
SwingMan wrote:Except the Hempstead Branch goes through Garden City, and the Far Rockaway through Five Towns. Without those places and the people who live in them these branches would be expendable. They create operational limitations (i.e. Queens Interlocking). Rockaway Beach and those communities will never be able to drum up support for anything more than what they have been handed.
YamaOfParadise wrote:Regardless, I don't know how the spur to Rockaway Park would fit into LIRR re-activation of the subway portions of the Rockaway Beach Branch. It's already a shuttle service for the subway, so I don't know it'd fit into the LIRR again.
Not ALL of the Rockaways is poor, but generally I agree, no way the community as a whole could afford LIRR service as the fares are currently structured (although once you factor in the other neighborhoods between Rego Park and Howard Beach, it may be another story). They'd have to restructure the entire fare structure, especially on the pay per ride level. Not sure how much more you can discount the current zone 1 and zone 3 monthly tickets, but they'd have to include a free transfer to NYCT. Also, they could run it so that trains from NYP/GCT could run express to Broad Channel, then all stops to Valley Stream. That allows it to cover five towns as well as the Rockaways. Does anyone have any old schedules that could compare what the running times would be for the various 5 towns stops? Local service south of Whitepot could run to Rockaway Park.
DogBert wrote:There is the possibility of connecting it to the queens blvd. subway (small provisions were made for it), but this would really add a lot of cost (and probably some building demolition). That subway route is pretty overtaxed as it is at the moment so logistically it wouldn't be a good choice.
A Queens Blvd local could be routed down the RBB (Let's just say the M, which would have to be made full time full length, not just the stubs it runs on the weekends and late nights), leaving the other local to cover the remaining Queens Blvd local stops. The main concern, however, is that this will create an influx of people transferring to the express at Roosevelt/74th, which is already severely overcrowded. The counter argument to that is the majority of these people are already doing this, just that they're coming in off the Q53 and other Woodhaven Blvd buses.