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  • Babylon Signal Bridge ID number?

  • Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.
Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

Moderator: Liquidcamphor

 #1581204  by nyandw
 
Image

Just west of Carlle Ave. across from Dependable Fuel Co. in Babylon prior to elevation project. Looking to determine the sign numbers/LIRR designations for this bridge signal. I have it labeled as S-35.x, thus far.

This is part of a c.1960 mapping project to be finished:
Image
 #1581245  by krispy
 
Naming bridges by number is a recent thing, in the past they were either called by the approx. milepost location (103 bridge Hall, etc) or if they were close to a prominent landmark like a street (Met at Jay for Metropolitan Ave) or something nearby, like the Meathouse at Hall. If it was the start of an interlocking, then it would've been the West Bridge Babylon, etc. This would have been something that was consistent and taught as such for the physical characteristics in training. Over time the policy has changed as naming specific locations or signals in train orders could be painful, so when they went from the Form 19 to the Form L and changed from a C-Card to Rule 241 for passing stop signals, they now name all signal bridges and interlocking signals with a sign.

As for that specific location at that time in Babylon, it is well ahead of my time and I wouldn't know, besides maybe to refer to the Emery maps, or someone else's PC maps from that era. Back then if the signals had a id plate with a letter with S ##, then it was an automatic (as opposed to an interlocking signal) signal, with the letter indicating the branch and the ## the milepost location to a tenth of a mile. If it was odd, it was westward, even - east. It was possible for a bridge to have a mix of automatics and interlocking signals, especially back then when there was more Rule 251 and 409 territory. In the map under the pic, the sigs for the Central branch would be prefaced with a C, not an S.
 #1581271  by LB
 
This 27 FEB 63 photo (from your website) is looking west at East Neck Road, shows Signal Bridge 358, with temporary tracks on the left side of the photo. You can probably measure the distance on a map from this location to the next signal bridge and come up with the number.

http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirrphotos/ ... t%20L).jpg

Also, road at far left of diagram is Great East Neck Road, followed by East Neck Road (to the east).
 #1581912  by freightguy
 
krispy wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:24 pm Naming bridges by number is a recent thing, in the past they were either called by the approx. milepost location (103 bridge Hall, etc) or if they were close to a prominent landmark like a street (Met at Jay for Metropolitan Ave) or something nearby, like the Meathouse at Hall. If it was the start of an interlocking, then it would've been the West Bridge Babylon, etc. This would have been something that was consistent and taught as such for the physical characteristics in training. Over time the policy has changed as naming specific locations or signals in train orders could be painful, so when they went from the Form 19 to the Form L and changed from a C-Card to Rule 241 for passing stop signals, they now name all signal bridges and interlocking signals with a sign.

As for that specific location at that time in Babylon, it is well ahead of my time and I wouldn't know, besides maybe to refer to the Emery maps, or someone else's PC maps from that era. Back then if the signals had a id plate with a letter with S ##, then it was an automatic (as opposed to an interlocking signal) signal, with the letter indicating the branch and the ## the milepost location to a tenth of a mile. If it was odd, it was westward, even - east. It was possible for a bridge to have a mix of automatics and interlocking signals, especially back then when there was more Rule 251 and 409 territory. In the map under the pic, the sigs for the Central branch would be prefaced with a C, not an S.
Krispy,

I think the block signals the westward being odd and the even signals east was adopted from the Pennsylvania Rail Road?
 #1581934  by krispy
 
freightguy wrote:Krispy,

I think the block signals the westward being odd and the even signals east was adopted from the Pennsylvania Rail Road?
Absolutely, especially being that was dating back to when the PRR owned the LIRR. They had a huge impact on signal and signal equipment. Not sure if PRR owned or was hooked up with US&S (Union Switch and Signal) but the vast majority of signal infrastructure dating from that era was US&S.
 #1581971  by ExCon90
 
I think the practice of relating signal numbers to mileposts (nearest tenth) was pretty nearly universal on US railroads, with odd numbers for westbound and even for eastbound (although I think the NYC used the actual tenth of a mile with a suffix E or W to indicate direction.

I don't know of any ownership of US&S by PRR, but it was located in Swissvale, Pa., on the PRR, and the PRR would be expected to buy their signal equipment from US&S if it didn't want to be short-hauled on inbound traffic. The NYC bought its signal equipment from General Railway Signal in Rochester. Railroads that didn't serve a signal manufacturer could buy from anyone they wanted.
 #1581972  by ExCon90
 
ExCon90 wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:14 pm I think the practice of relating signal numbers to mileposts (nearest tenth) was pretty nearly universal on US railroads, with odd numbers for westbound and even for eastbound (although I think the NYC used the actual tenth of a mile with a suffix E or W to indicate direction).

I don't know of any ownership of US&S by PRR, but it was located in Swissvale, Pa., on the PRR, and the PRR would be expected to buy their signal equipment from US&S if it didn't want to be short-hauled on inbound traffic. The NYC bought its signal equipment from General Railway Signal in Rochester. Railroads that didn't serve a signal manufacturer could buy from anyone they wanted.
 #1582157  by nyandw
 
krispy wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:14 pm
freightguy wrote:Krispy, I think the block signals the westward being odd and the even signals east was adopted from the Pennsylvania Rail Road?
Absolutely, especially being that was dating back to when the PRR owned the LIRR. They had a huge impact on signal and signal equipment. Not sure if PRR owned or was hooked up with US&S (Union Switch and Signal) but the vast majority of signal infrastructure dating from that era was US&S.
Emery map 1958 labels this signal bridge as westbound S358 as verified by LB in this photo view Image

Image

The eastbound even and westbound odd "rule" doesn't seem to apply here? :-)
 #1582205  by krispy
 
There were always exceptions to the rule, I remember being sent to Jamaica one time to give out paperwork account of an error in a GN. The mgr who wrote it applied the SB numbering rule, and the SB named in the GN was off by a digit. Problem fixed as soon as the print shop could crank out a new GN, but I remember the ribbing he took over it as he was very good and rarely erred, so everyone of course pounced when he did.