CSX Selling Trackage

[Gilbert B Norman]

You mean the CSX main line between Cumberland and Pittsburgh? The Capitol Ltd route?

Woody, I believe that is exactly what Mr. Ironman has in mind.

Passenger trains not part of these long term plans that Yäger set forth to his disciples.

Incidentally, there is now a topic over at the Amtrak Forum to discuss the impact on Amtrak from these CSX proposals.

[mtuandrew]

You'd think there's a ready buyer for the segment Worcester-Springfield, or even Worcester-Albany, but the "invitation" below has this poison pill:

...If you are interested in ... operating a current or former CSX rail line for freight only purposes ...

Emphasis added.

Why’s that a poison pill? Massachusetts can make an offer to purchase the B&A in conjunction with a freight operator, since the state isn’t going to operate freight service. That poison pill sounds like a way to keep potential lessors from starting up tourist lines and exposing CSX to liability as track owner, not to block Amtrak or other reasonably responsible third-party operators like MBTA Keolis.

It’d be hilarious to me if NS made an offer and set off a chain reaction in Billerica. Aside from the state (or Amtrak) getting WOR-SPG and granting trackage rights to someone, NS and G&W are the most obvious bidders.

[Ironman]

Is CSX having a "fire sale", or an auction with reserve? Is putting almost the whole system up for sale, a few sections at a time, a way to find if any parts are worth more sold than kept?

Right now they are in the "study" phase, deciding whether or not to offer certain lines for sale. A couple of segments are being offered ... one line has already been eliminated from the study list. At the moment it seems that they are seeing if it would make more sense to keep or sell each of the listed lines and gauging the interest of qualified purchasers.

You are dead wrong on this. You are trying to make it sound like this is a normal thing, just putting feelers out there. You are letting the wool being pulled over your eyes, I will assure you that line (aka Sand Patch) is most definitely going to be sold. They just don't want that public knowledge yet, so they walked it back.

Wake up.

I don’t mean to be rude but you seem to be saying a lot without backing it in anyway shape or form. I’d understand if you are simply making a prediction but the way you are talking it sounds like you know for a fact that certain things are going to happen. If you have something to back up these statement, great I’m sure we would all love to see it (provided you don’t work for CSX and sharing it would put your job in jeopardy).

I apologize, my last sentence was rude. You are right, I don't know exactly what will happen. I don't have access to all the players that may step up with roadblocks, but I don't see any way to stop a company from selling its property.

[MattW]

The L&N is pretty huge chunk, and fairly busy I think. They were trying to get Georgia to waive putting passenger service on it (I think Georgia may actually own it?). Would be a huge chunk of the Floridian.

I want to correct this, I made the same mistake myself on other forums. I believe the L&N route referred to is the one that runs from Cartersville more due north via Chatsworth, GA bypassing Dalton and Chattanooga. Going South, this line joins the W&A from Chattanooga at Cartersville to Atlanta. The last information I have (from 2005) shows this to be a 60mph CTC single track line with signaled sidings (as opposed to controlled sidings) as far as Etowah.

[smsullivan11]

So Mr. Ironman, you are suggesting that if CSX does sell the B&A to a Short Line, there will no longer be a Class I serving New England.

The Port of Boston might not be too "happy 'bout that", which means politicians up that way might not be too "happy 'bout that". I think of how Boston got Amtrak Acela and electrification all the way when there is clearly less traffic than on the PRR end of things. Port served by two Class II's? How many maritime companies with their freedom to sail anywhere go to a Port with "questionable" rail service?.

The Port of Boston is quite small and for the most part lacks direct rail service currently although there have been talks to change this. "The Port" has virtually 0.0 political pull in this state.

[bostontrainguy]

So Mr. Ironman, you are suggesting that if CSX does sell the B&A to a Short Line, there will no longer be a Class I serving New England.

The Port of Boston might not be too "happy 'bout that", which means politicians up that way might not be too "happy 'bout that". I think of how Boston got Amtrak Acela and electrification all the way when there is clearly less traffic than on the PRR end of things. Port served by two Class II's? How many maritime companies with their freedom to sail anywhere go to a Port with "questionable" rail service?.

The Port of Boston is quite small and for the most part lacks direct rail service currently although there have been talks to change this. "The Port" has virtually 0.0 political pull in this state.

You are correct that the Port of Boston has done little to bring rail to it's docks. The International Cargo Terminal was rebuilt with rail-on-dock that was never used. The D Street bridge was rebuilt with double-stack clearance but has never seen a revenue train pass under it. CSX did run a test engine down the line a few years ago but nothing came of it.

Docks in Everett have active CSX rail next to them and had an active shipper who was looking for rail service. Somebody dropped the ball here and Eimskip moved to Portland. Docks once served by rail in Charlestown are decrepit and the tracks severed years ago. NIMBYS will fight and win any revival.

So you are right and I agree with you to a point. However know that Massport does tout it's proximity to the national rail system first at Beacon Park and now at Worcester, both being a short truck trip down the Mass Pike. So even though they have done nothing to bring rail to the Port, losing that Class 1 carrier might cause some concern. Maybe a crazy little entrepreneurial regional RR would actually work harder to get the rail service to the Port going? A single level container shuttle to Worcester wouldn't be impossible to do. Plenty of vacant land at the Massport Marine Terminal (http://www.mass.gov/anf/property-mgmt-a ... lease.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), another failed Massport adventure that actually included a new rail line connected to CSX.

[Alex M]

One of the items said that a good portion of the Florence Division will be on the block. What lines would this be? Hopefully not the A line.

[justalurker66]

Is CSX having a "fire sale", or an auction with reserve? Is putting almost the whole system up for sale, a few sections at a time, a way to find if any parts are worth more sold than kept?

Right now they are in the "study" phase, deciding whether or not to offer certain lines for sale. A couple of segments are being offered ... one line has already been eliminated from the study list. At the moment it seems that they are seeing if it would make more sense to keep or sell each of the listed lines and gauging the interest of qualified purchasers.

You are dead wrong on this. You are trying to make it sound like this is a normal thing, just putting feelers out there. You are letting the wool being pulled over your eyes, I will assure you that line (aka Sand Patch) is most definitely going to be sold. They just don't want that public knowledge yet, so they walked it back.

Wake up.

I am woke. I suppose one could say the entire system is for sale for a price. But to make it sound like CSX is breaking up the entire system into pieces to sell is "dead wrong".

CSX is not breaking up the entire system. CSX is not being forced to sell any of these lines (even the ones that have been offered up such as the one in Illinois). CSX does not have to accept "fire sale" prices. They can look at these parts of their network and decide if they will make more money continuing to service the lines or selling off freight service to other carriers.

[Gilbert B Norman]

One of the items said that a good portion of the Florence Division will be on the block. What lines would this be? Hopefully not the A line.

Mr. AlexM, unless Yäger's disciples think the Southeast is not worth serving, the North End, South End and Charleston Subs are safe.

But I would not hold same for the Hamlet and Columbia Subs - the former SAL.

[metoo]

any new/existing short line interested in the Port of Boston for intermodal business still has to deal with the 800 pound gorilla Guildford/pan am/what ever there is this week to be sucessful

[bostontrainguy]

any new/existing short line interested in the Port of Boston for intermodal business still has to deal with the 800 pound gorilla Guildford/pan am/what ever there is this week to be sucessful

No they don't. CSX has direct access to everything. Everett on the north side and Boston on the south side. Direct route via CSX lines over the Grand Junction between Everett and Worcester. Two alternative CSX routes from (South) Boston to Worcester via the B&A main through Beacon Park or via the Fairmount line via Walpole. Easy peasy!

[Ironman]

Is CSX having a "fire sale", or an auction with reserve? Is putting almost the whole system up for sale, a few sections at a time, a way to find if any parts are worth more sold than kept?

Right now they are in the "study" phase, deciding whether or not to offer certain lines for sale. A couple of segments are being offered ... one line has already been eliminated from the study list. At the moment it seems that they are seeing if it would make more sense to keep or sell each of the listed lines and gauging the interest of qualified purchasers.

You are dead wrong on this. You are trying to make it sound like this is a normal thing, just putting feelers out there. You are letting the wool being pulled over your eyes, I will assure you that line (aka Sand Patch) is most definitely going to be sold. They just don't want that public knowledge yet, so they walked it back.

Wake up.

I am woke. I suppose one could say the entire system is for sale for a price. But to make it sound like CSX is breaking up the entire system into pieces to sell is "dead wrong".

CSX is not breaking up the entire system. CSX is not being forced to sell any of these lines (even the ones that have been offered up such as the one in Illinois). CSX does not have to accept "fire sale" prices. They can look at these parts of their network and decide if they will make more money continuing to service the lines or selling off freight service to other carriers.

I'll admit I got a little carried away.

[Ryanontherails]

So why do a number of people believe that their potential sale of the Boston and Albany mean that CSX is going to dump all of their services east of the Hudson River? I took it to mean that they will sell the line but retain their trackage rights. They no longer own most of their tracks in Eastern Massachusetts but still run trains there. MassDOT will inevitably get Worcester-Springfield, possibly the rest of the way to the state line if New York State is interested in the section from the state line to the junction in Shondack. Who owns the tracks from Shondack to Rensselaer? That's a priority corridor for high-speed rail!

That being said, once (if?) that goes, they won't have a whole lot left out here. I'm sure MassDOT will get the Fitchburg Subdivision eventually. All that's left is Franklin-Milford and then a bunch of industrial tracks. Will anyone take those over?

[Rockingham Racer]

Amtrak owns the Post Road Branch to Renssalaer, I believe.

[bostontrainguy]

All that's left is Franklin-Milford and then a bunch of industrial tracks. Will anyone take those over?

Grafton & Upton probably?