Amtrak Diner and Food Service Discussion

[lordsigma12345]

It hasn’t yet been announced yet. The revelation I guess is from an internal document that’s been floating around.

[FatNoah]

But we Amtrak passengers are not orphans in the South Sudan, in dire need of food. We're consumers in a capitalistic country and we can give our dollars to airlines that offer more value for the money

I agree, but as someone that makes the trip from Boston to Lakeland, FL a couple times a year, the change highlights another issue. Before the change, I was barely able to convince Mrs. and Jr. FatNoah to do a train-there, plane-home trip. Without the food service, they have absolutely zero interest. The success of the diner-free consist clearly shows that I'm a bit of an outlier, but it also means that I have much more limited success even getting a roomette due to limited availability. That's the second problem (and one we've heard many, many times on this forum). Amtrak can increase demand, but funding or other constraints prevent it from leveraging the ability to add seats to a (non-Acela) consist. IMHO, a train selling out months in advance shouldn't happen except in extreme circumstances, such as Thanksgiving.

[lordsigma12345]

It is now officially announced and reflected in reservation system.

[JimBoylan]

Amtrak.com for April 29 and May 6 Southbound shows no difference in price or food service on the Silver Starvation.

Now there are changes. New York to Miami on the Silver Star for May 6 shows both Flexible Dining and No Dining Car, and the Roomette fare has increased from the $466 I saw when I looked on January 4 to $479. April 29 shows $466, March 18 shows $426, but November 18 shows the same $479 as May 6.
On May 6 and November 18, the Silver Meteor just shows Flexible Dining, no mention of No Dining Car, and the Roomette fare has been reduced to match the Silver Star. Silver Meteor Roomette fares had been higher than the same on the Silver Star, and still seem to be for travel before May 1.
Of course, the future may bring different results.

[SouthernRailway]

This has been asked before, I’d think, but I can’t find the answer:

Why do Amtrak cafe cars stay closed for such long parts of trips? Not just upon departure and near the ends of trips, but so often during the trip too.

For example, the Crescent cafe car is closed in the early afternoon when the train leaves and at dinner time when the train is in Washington and at other times. I understand that the cafe car is closed when power is off during an engine change but it seems like it closes repeatedly at other times.

[STrRedWolf]

This has been asked before, I’d think, but I can’t find the answer:

Why do Amtrak cafe cars stay closed for such long parts of trips? Not just upon departure and near the ends of trips, but so often during the trip too.

For example, the Crescent cafe car is closed in the early afternoon when the train leaves and at dinner time when the train is in Washington and at other times. I understand that the cafe car is closed when power is off during an engine change but it seems like it closes repeatedly at other times.

Do these times have a long dwell time? It may be they're changing staff or the staff is on break.

[SouthernRailway]

Do these times have a long dwell time? It may be they're changing staff or the staff is on break.

Leaving NYP: closed for about 20 minutes
Arriving Baltimore: same
Approaching WAS: same
Leaving WAS: same (even after being closed for 40 minutes while at Washington)

I would just think that Amtrak would make an effort to keep the café car open around mealtimes. It was closed from 5:30pm to about 6:50pm on the Crescent, approaching, staying at and leaving Washington.

[STrRedWolf]

Do these times have a long dwell time? It may be they're changing staff or the staff is on break.

Leaving NYP: closed for about 20 minutes
Arriving Baltimore: same
Approaching WAS: same
Leaving WAS: same (even after being closed for 40 minutes while at Washington)

I would just think that Amtrak would make an effort to keep the café car open around mealtimes. It was closed from 5:30pm to about 6:50pm on the Crescent, approaching, staying at and leaving Washington.

NYP I can see as the staff doing inventory and getting ready to open. WAS I can see as a crew change (3 hours between DC and NYP).

The only reason I can see Baltimore closing is to make sure folks don't take up diner space as travel space. That's it.

[Tadman]

This has been asked before, I’d think, but I can’t find the answer:

Why do Amtrak cafe cars stay closed for such long parts of trips? Not just upon departure and near the ends of trips, but so often during the trip too.

For example, the Crescent cafe car is closed in the early afternoon when the train leaves and at dinner time when the train is in Washington and at other times. I understand that the cafe car is closed when power is off during an engine change but it seems like it closes repeatedly at other times.

Trying to figure out their staffing patterns is like trying to figure out the Mayan calendar. Good luck. As far as I can tell, the lounge/food counter closes because there is one person that mans that counter, and if that person is on a break or off for the night, the counter closes. If that person is engaged in inventory or restocking, the counter closes.

What I don't understand is why a coach attendant can't cover the lounge counter during break time at least. A coach attendant's job is not linear. In other words, they are not doing the same amount of work all day. Perhaps planning lounge attendant breaks around the peak times of coach attendant work would allow them to offer more seamless lounge service without sacrificing any jobs. That kind of innovation would cost little, but it generally doesn't happen on a monopolistic government agency that is basically guaranteed their $1.8b/year every year becuase there's no incentive to do so.

[electricron]

Trying to figure out their staffing patterns is like trying to figure out the Mayan calendar. Good luck. As far as I can tell, the lounge/food counter closes because there is one person that mans that counter, and if that person is on a break or off for the night, the counter closes. If that person is engaged in inventory or restocking, the counter closes.

What I don't understand is why a coach attendant can't cover the lounge counter during break time at least. A coach attendant's job is not linear. In other words, they are not doing the same amount of work all day. Perhaps planning lounge attendant breaks around the peak times of coach attendant work would allow them to offer more seamless lounge service without sacrificing any jobs. That kind of innovation would cost little, but it generally doesn't happen on a monopolistic government agency that is basically guaranteed their $1.8b/year every year becuase there's no incentive to do so.

A very good answer that I can only add one additional reason to. Do not forget it is a union job with specific time requirements for breaks and hours to work written on paper in ink.
There is no way in the universe for a single union worker to provide 24 hours around the clock service on a train, 8 hours maximum is the best you should expect without overtime raising its ugly head. If the cafe attendant opens the cafe at 9 am and works 8 continuous hours, the cafe has to close at 5 pm. The earlier the cafe is opened and the later the cafe is closed, the intervening breaks the union worker takes must be longer. And that is exactly why the cafe is closed so often.
There is no way in the universe that a union would allow workers in different job classifications to work outside their classification and pitch in elsewhere when it is needed.

[Tadman]

Yeah those are issues I struggle with when I think about this as well, and they helped frame my thoughts. Work rules are hard to negotiate down. They might have to add something to the pot if a coach attendant were to be asked to cover the cafe for an hour. And we might still not see cafe service super late.

I don't think cafe service super late is necessary, I just want to avoid the 30 minute gaps mid-day and the 45+ minute gap pre-terminal.

Maybe the cafe cover assignments could be marketed to the coach attendants as "easier than coach" duties, IE you don't have to leave the area, can sit on a stool, no heavy lifting... the car attendants, especially sleeper, have to be ready to climb, lift, and pull hefty loads at all times. Also perhaps a share of the tips or even a commission on sales in the cafe.

That leads to another interesting question: if the cafe counter guy got commissions, would he or she sell more? Would it lead to more honest accounting of food, given that gifted/stolen food is not accounted for and thus not covered under incentive/commission?

[Gilbert B Norman]

It shall be interesting to see to what extent , if at all, these "service enhancements" are in place for my upcoming "Voyage 25" on 52(26):

https://amtrak.com/alert/auto-train-202 ... ments.html

Considering my admitted cynicism regarding Amtrak LD's, I'm expecting nothing other than a ride and vehicle transport. I could be looking at a "Why, Why, Why", if this were strictly a joyride, but so long as I have a Lunch scheduled in Stafford on arrival Monday, and wish to make two "bootleg" stops at "grape juice dispensaries" before heading West to a tie up in Akron, there is a purpose for using AT.

[WhartonAndNorthern]

This has been asked before, I’d think, but I can’t find the answer:

Why do Amtrak cafe cars stay closed for such long parts of trips? Not just upon departure and near the ends of trips, but so often during the trip too.

For example, the Crescent cafe car is closed in the early afternoon when the train leaves and at dinner time when the train is in Washington and at other times. I understand that the cafe car is closed when power is off during an engine change but it seems like it closes repeatedly at other times.

Trying to figure out their staffing patterns is like trying to figure out the Mayan calendar. Good luck. As far as I can tell, the lounge/food counter closes because there is one person that mans that counter, and if that person is on a break or off for the night, the counter closes. If that person is engaged in inventory or restocking, the counter closes.

What I don't understand is why a coach attendant can't cover the lounge counter during break time at least. A coach attendant's job is not linear. In other words, they are not doing the same amount of work all day. Perhaps planning lounge attendant breaks around the peak times of coach attendant work would allow them to offer more seamless lounge service without sacrificing any jobs. That kind of innovation would cost little, but it generally doesn't happen on a monopolistic government agency that is basically guaranteed their $1.8b/year every year becuase there's no incentive to do so.

From what I understand, the specific unionized craft that staffs a lounge car is "Lead Service Attendant." LSAs have the additional responsibility of handling money, signing for the cash box and turning in the receipts and documentation, as well as signing for and turning in the food from the commissary.
In traditional dining setups (Western LD), an additional LSA is assigned to the dining car and also handles the cash and credit card payments for the coach customers.
Dining car waiters, coach attendants, sleeping car attendants, and the chef's assistant constitute a different craft and pay rate. I think traditional dining chefs constitute a third craft.

On an LD, the Lounge LSA sleeps on the train and works 6AM to 11PM*. That means less than 5 hours of sleep a night. They're only paid for hours actually on the train so they do tend to shut down operations and clean up before reaching the home terminal. Obviously they get meal breaks as well.

*or more, if those are the open hours and they prep before and after.

[SouthernRailway]

Thanks, everyone, for the explanations about the cafe cars.

Amtrak just needs to start with one principle:

Cafe cars should be open at mealtimes. Period.

And Amtrak needs to find out a way to make that happen.

[Tadman]

Right, but what is mealtime? Conventional logic says breakfast/lunch/dinner, but how long is that and on what timezone? The Chief or Builder has three of them. And what about passengers that waited over 2 hours for a habitually late train with no food at the station, are they out of luck once aboard?

Rather than trying to force a conventional or traditional mindset on the food service, it's probably better to go cash-free and drop the specialized requirements for the position, then implement some sort of rotating service staffing pattern.