$25000 Ticket on the Chicago-Bloomington Run

[exvalley]

Amtrak just doesn't like people in wheelchairs. Few years back we rode Miami to Richmond, VA. Somewheres in the middle of Florida an old man in a wheelchair was lifted onboard, and placed in front of us. There were some brackets on the deck. No crew members ever came by to check on him. We took him to the bathroom and got him a snack. Guy was paraplegic, so needed assistance in the can. Being as there were 5 medics in our group, no worries with the bathroom. Least they could have done was get him a water and a bag of peanuts or something.

An Amtrak employee should NEVER accompany a passenger to the bathroom. The potential liability for doing so is tremendous. As for providing food to the passenger, your issue should be with the union and not with Amtrak itself. If it’s not in the job description, union rules prohibit their members from doing it.

[Arborwayfan]

Edited to respond to reply below:

Surely what's in the job description depends as much on what Amtrak chose to negotiate for as on what the union chose to negotiate against? Anyone negotiating with have certain priorities -- particular duties the employer wants done, particular duties the employees want to avoid; an employer might really want pay under a certain amount even if that means fewer duties; and so on. Employers don't just push for all possible duties with equal strength. And as negotiations go on, we know it often comes down to "Employer: I want you to do A, B, and C. Union: we will do two of those for x amount of money, not all 3."

[Arborwayfan]

As my wife points out, at least Amtrak has a system for carrying people in wheelchairs, whereas the airlines are so dead set against it that they have squashed all testing of systems to carry passengers safely on planes in their own chairs. Amtrak needs some more capacity; the airlines need to be forced to accommodate.

[exvalley]

Surely what's in the job description depends as much on what Amtrak chose to negotiate for as on what the union chose to negotiate against?

Generally, with these types of negotiations, the employer pushes for more duties and the union pushes for fewer.

[GOLDEN-ARM]

Maybe it would be better to charter a bus or van that is especially set up for this? Maybe it would be better to take a couple different trains? Maybe it would be better to charter a PV?

oh yeah, sure. that's great, if you want to get there in 1/4 of the travel time, at 1/8th of the cost.

amtrak: it's greyhound, only worse.

[Tadman]

We still haven't had anybody verify if a private car is a better solution. Many of them do not have bolted seats like Amtrak requires.

Plus, PV rules got tightened up enough that makes it not feasible.

I don't see how you arrive at that conclusion. Are you quoting from the PV rules and can you advise which rule you are referring to?

[rcthompson04]

NPR quoted the group in saying that the charter bus was not feasible and cost more than Amtrak.

This points to Amtrak’s quote being reasonable.

[rcthompson04]

Amtrak just doesn't like people in wheelchairs. Few years back we rode Miami to Richmond, VA. Somewheres in the middle of Florida an old man in a wheelchair was lifted onboard, and placed in front of us. There were some brackets on the deck. No crew members ever came by to check on him. We took him to the bathroom and got him a snack. Guy was paraplegic, so needed assistance in the can. Being as there were 5 medics in our group, no worries with the bathroom. Least they could have done was get him a water and a bag of peanuts or something.

An Amtrak employee should NEVER accompany a passenger to the bathroom. The potential liability for doing so is tremendous. As for providing food to the passenger, your issue should be with the union and not with Amtrak itself. If it’s not in the job description, union rules prohibit their members from doing it.

No employer is going to allow their employee to do this for obvious reasons. If a person needs such assistance, they should be traveling with their caregiver. Would an airline, restaurant, hotel or bank branch have to provide such a service? Absolutely not.

[CHTT1]

Amtrak just doesn't like people in wheelchairs. Few years back we rode Miami to Richmond, VA. Somewheres in the middle of Florida an old man in a wheelchair was lifted onboard, and placed in front of us. There were some brackets on the deck. No crew members ever came by to check on him. We took him to the bathroom and got him a snack. Guy was paraplegic, so needed assistance in the can. Being as there were 5 medics in our group, no worries with the bathroom. Least they could have done was get him a water and a bag of peanuts or something.

An Amtrak employee should NEVER accompany a passenger to the bathroom. The potential liability for doing so is tremendous. As for providing food to the passenger, your issue should be with the union and not with Amtrak itself. If it’s not in the job description, union rules prohibit their members from doing it.

If the man in question was so incapacitated, he should not have been allowed to travel alone. He should have had a travel companion to take care of him.

[Tadman]

NPR quoted the group in saying that the charter bus was not feasible and cost more than Amtrak.

This points to Amtrak’s quote being reasonable.

Agreed, and it's also more evidence that NPR didn't do any reporting, they just did regurgitating. Why just ask the aggrieved here? Why not call a few bus companies? What does that take, ten minutes?

Zero. Primary. Sources.

[rcthompson04]

NPR quoted the group in saying that the charter bus was not feasible and cost more than Amtrak.

This points to Amtrak’s quote being reasonable.

Agreed, and it's also more evidence that NPR didn't do any reporting, they just did regurgitating. Why just ask the aggrieved here? Why not call a few bus companies? What does that take, ten minutes?

Zero. Primary. Sources.

They could have looked at commuter railroads. I suspect most would have had issues transporting that many wheelchairs as well.

[rohr turbo]

... and it's also more evidence that NPR didn't do any reporting, they just did regurgitating. Why just ask the aggrieved here? Why not call a few bus companies? What does that take, ten minutes?

Zero. Primary. Sources.

In all your angry diatribes, you've yet to point out any factual error in the reporting. And NPR DID go to Amtrak several times for comment. And what for god's sake would 'bus companies' say that is relevant to this story??

Now that the story has been picked up by a wide range of news outlets, all reporting basically the same set of facts, your (and John Perkowski's) vitriol toward NPR looks all the more ridiculous.

Amtrak screwed up. NPR reported it first, and accurately. Public backlash, including a Senator. Amtrak then revised its policies for the better. Follow up reports published.

A good outcome all in all.

[STrRedWolf]

We still haven't had anybody verify if a private car is a better solution. Many of them do not have bolted seats like Amtrak requires.

Plus, PV rules got tightened up enough that makes it not feasible.

I don't see how you arrive at that conclusion. Are you quoting from the PV rules and can you advise which rule you are referring to?

I point you to this thread: http://www.railroad.net/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=167279

Remember? Amtrak changed the charter and PV rules. End to end only. Bloomington is not an "end" for any normal train.

[eolesen]

As my wife points out, at least Amtrak has a system for carrying people in wheelchairs, whereas the airlines are so dead set against it that they have squashed all testing of systems to carry passengers safely on planes in their own chairs. Amtrak needs some more capacity; the airlines need to be forced to accommodate.

Nice try, but "Safely in their own chairs" would require wheelchairs up to the same standard the FAA (not the airlines) requires for seat structural strength, which is currently at 16 (16 x normal gravity force).

I'd love to see the pricetag on a 16G capable wheelchair. It's probably more than those $25000 tickets to Bloomington.

[rcthompson04]

As my wife points out, at least Amtrak has a system for carrying people in wheelchairs, whereas the airlines are so dead set against it that they have squashed all testing of systems to carry passengers safely on planes in their own chairs. Amtrak needs some more capacity; the airlines need to be forced to accommodate.

Nice try, but "Safely in their own chairs" would require wheelchairs up to the same standard the FAA (not the airlines) requires for seat structural strength, which is currently at 16 (16 x normal gravity force).

I'd love to see the pricetag on a 16G capable wheelchair. It's probably more than those $25000 tickets to Bloomington.

There are 16G capable wheelchairs on the market, but they are the exception not the rule from what a brief Google search says. Aviation is also exempted from the ADA and governed by a separate law that is far more relaxed in terms of required accommodations.