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  • P32AC-DM Question

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1530248  by east point
 
DURR5017116 wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:02 pm ....I don't get why Wabtec can't just make a dual mode HSP-46....they literally have the same traction motors as the P32......
Amtrak and almost every other carrier does not want DC traction motors. AC traction is so much better in many ways !
 #1530258  by mtuandrew
 
east point wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:53 pm
DURR5017116 wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:02 pm ....I don't get why Wabtec can't just make a dual mode HSP-46....they literally have the same traction motors as the P32......
Amtrak and almost every other carrier does not want DC traction motors. AC traction is so much better in many ways !
You’re right, no one wants DC traction motors! Luckily P32s have AC traction motors too :P
 #1530995  by Engineer Spike
 
The one problem with the passenger locomotive market is that there is no uniformity. Freight lines have been buying the same few models from GE and EMD for the last 30-40 years. The freight railroads have been smart with the big push in recent years to rebuild present models, than to buy new. Much of this is driven by the fact that the new emissions systems still need to cut their teeth. That makes rebuilding grandfathered power the logical choice. In some cases these rebuilt units are almost a ground up build, such as CPR's GP9-GP20eco program.

Passenger carriers seem to feel the need to reinvent the wheel with every new purchase. Why does LIRR have the EMD dual modes, while Metro North has GE? Couldn't someone in MTA impose a standard design? That would have been much cheaper from a design aspect. A greater quantity discount on the initial purchase, and subsequent parts orders could have been realized. This is just one example of the waste. At least NJT and AMT both agreed to buy the same locomotives. They jointly piggybacked the orders, and moreover, they are not one of a kind models.

I agree that the passenger locomotive has many more restraints. They have to be lighter, and often fit in confining clearance envelopes. Others need to be either dual mode for DC third rail, or AC overhead. One other aspect is that the government funded passenger agencies often get their loot from tree hugger pols, so they can't just recycle a 40 yer old design.

Too bad that the T had so many problems. The GE Evolution design has been pretty bulletproof in freight.
 #1531011  by Tadman
 
You make some really good points. I've always said that if Amtrak and the commuter carriers used the SD40-2, then SD70MAC with a HEP unit, they would've had a lot less problems. Coulda woulda shoulda... Just glad something still runs. We are basically the last country in the free world with a comprehensive system. Canada has a corridor plus a few LD's with 2x/week frequency, Brazil has little left, Argentina has some LD's with 1x and a few regionals...
 #1531832  by andrewjw
 
Tadman wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:22 pm You make some really good points. I've always said that if Amtrak and the commuter carriers used the SD40-2, then SD70MAC with a HEP unit, they would've had a lot less problems. Coulda woulda shoulda... Just glad something still runs. We are basically the last country in the free world with a comprehensive system. Canada has a corridor plus a few LD's with 2x/week frequency, Brazil has little left, Argentina has some LD's with 1x and a few regionals...
Sorry to side track, but are the UK, France, Germany, Italy, Portugal, Spain, Japan, Korea, the Netherlands, Belgium, India, etc... not part of the free world anymore? If you said "new world" / North America, perhaps...
 #1531851  by Tadman
 
By comprehensive system, I mean a system that (a) covers the entire country; (b) offers an entire spectrum of schedules, from shuttles and locals to premium expresses; and (c) offers an entire spectrum of hard and soft product offerings, from bare bones high density through seated business class to private cabin in sleeper overnight trains.

Virtually all other countries in the free world have 1-2 sleeper trains - Ocean & Canadian (Canada), Indian Pacific & Ghan (Oz), Night Riviera and Caledonian (GB); Lusitania and Galician (Spain); Tucumano and Cordoba (Arg), running anywhere from daily (UK, Spain) to near-weekly (Canada, Argentina). There is also the Thello, Nightjet, and Stockholm boat sleeper. Brazil only has two regional trains and no other offerings. Japan has one night train, maybe two.

Of those countries, Argentina only has a few regional trains that run weekly and one (Mar Platense) with 3x/day. Australia has a decent regional network, and most of the European countries have fine HST and regional operations.

The only countries in the world that truly operate a large and cross-country comprehensive sleeper/regional/HST/corridor/long distance operation are Russia, China, and India.
 #1532561  by andrewjw
 
so you are saying these countries don't have a comprehensive rail system because they don't run enough sleeper trains?
 #1532617  by David Benton
 
High speed trains killed off most of the sleeper trains in Europe. That was before the current highly subsidized ( by the absence of any tax on jet fuel ) cheap airfares.
When a route starts offering 2-3 hour HSR service vs a 6 -8 hour conventional train service, the need for sleeper services plummets.
In Britain in the 80's , it was the HST125 that depleted the number of sleeper services. Though it was only marginally faster than the conventional service , it allowed a degree of reliability and fast turnaround , that BR could schedule trains from London to the Midlands , to arrive 1-2 a.m in the morning , and leave again by 6 -7 a.m. I think the shortest diagram was 20 hours , leaving 4 hours a day for servicing. Even the scotland service was selling 29 pound seats to Scotland to fill the train .
The TGV in France was effectively the beginning of the end for shorter distance sleeper services in Europe. Now the longer distance ones are making a comeback with the no Fly movement etc .
I can't see how you can argue the USA has a more comprehensive service than Europe in any sense.
 #1532694  by ExCon90
 
If we're talking passenger--which I think we are--we don't have a network. We have four corridors and a skeleton.
 #1532697  by DutchRailnut
 
we have a tread drift of substantial proportions .
 #1532727  by andrewjw
 
DutchRailnut wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:49 pm we have a tread drift of substantial proportions .
you might even say we have gone... off the rails.

has there been any news on replacement DM procurement?
are there any new reliability numbers on the p32s that would suggest this has become a higher or lower priority?