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Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1520822  by mtuandrew
 
Tadman wrote: Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:19 pm I think this opens up an entirely new concept for a national rail agency. Instead of having to touch so many states with an LD (however valid that argument is, let's pretend it is), you could have Amtrak as a funding agency only and touch quite a few states that are not very useful for LD trains. For example, they could give $1m/year to Utah commuter trains or a Phoenix-Tucson operation and "touch" those states in a fare more effective way than today's long distance services do. The same could work for a Cheyenne-Boulder-Denver-Springs opearation.

Obviously this would take some finagling with local host railroads, but in the long run, it's far more useful to travelers.

Imagine this - given that airlines don't really like those shorthaul trips, having a corridor that not only carries locals but perhaps interfaces and through-tickets with air travelers would be amazing. I fly into Tucson a lot, but then have to take a mini-flight or bus for the final leg from Phoenix a lot. I hate it. It's awful. I'd much rather have a Brightline or Trax operation, and I bet AMR would, too.
While I agree with Federal subsidy for local operations that also benefit national mobility, isn’t the FRA already doing that exact job? I understand that for some here, the concept of a publicly-operated Amtrak sticks in your craw, but given funding and support it has proven effective without privateers coming to take over its business.

The only leftover piece is expansion of service and interline ticketing; for example, I should be able to buy a ticket Chicago-Santa Fe and transfer at Albuquerque (or somewhere further north) to Rail Runner. Lamy is quaint but unnecessary. And yes, Tucson-Phoenix is crying for commuter rail.
 #1520824  by eolesen
 
I used to live there, and no, Tucson-Phoenix is not crying for commuter rail. AZDOT has been trying to get interest for decades, but the demand simply isn't there, which is why they continue to slow-walk the planning process.

Tucson wants nothing that makes them into a big city. They couldn't even get light rail when there was free money to do it, aside from the "modern street car" that goes essentially nowhere and is nowhere near ridership projections.
 #1520834  by Tadman
 
mtuandrew wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:43 am isn’t the FRA already doing that exact job?
Totally, but it's something that has to be communicated to the voters and reps. If you spend all the money in the world, but don't hype it, you don't get credit for it. As a voter in Utah or New Mexico, I'd much rather have $x go to a regional system like Trax or Roadrunner that makes 10 trips/day than a long distance train that is borderline useless. But the powers-that-be should draw those connections very clearly, otherwise the local reps make the case that the NEC is dependent on the CZ.
eolesen wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:21 am I used to live there, and no, Tucson-Phoenix is not crying for commuter rail. AZDOT has been trying to get interest for decades, but the demand simply isn't there, which is why they continue to slow-walk the planning process.

Tucson wants nothing that makes them into a big city.
My parents have been out there for five years and Metra-style commuter rail is not the right idea, but a brightline-type shuttle between Tucson (university, bases, etc.) and Phoenix (airport, university, etc) is really needed. That interstate is dreadful. I hate it. I cannot stand the drive up to Phoenix. The worst drivers ever, somehow on an open road they manage to screw it all up and make it slow or stop. It is mind-bending how they drive so bad on that road. IT. IS. THE. WORST. I'd rather drive across a war zone.

As for Tucson wanting to "not be a big city", I've heard that narrative and they're utterly delusional. They have 1m people. It's a huge city that decided in 1985 "not to be big" and that just means awful traffic, strip malls everywhere, no freeways or commuter trains. It takes forever to get anywhere. It's like Paul Bunyan not wanting to be big so he buys small shirts. I just looks utterly stupid. Physics says this idea doesn't work, but they continue to pretend. Whatevs...

Will a Brightline-like shuttle happen? Probably not. What does that mean? I visit 1x/year and stay on the property with some good bourbon and an ipad. I don't spend money, I don't go places, I don't deal with their bs.

Also, regarding the "is there a market" test, there is umpteen flights and Flix bus (german bus/train operator) between the cities.