Railroad Forums 

  • Ocean View Question(s)

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1520753  by electricron
 
Larger windows on brand new coach cars would certainly help with the view. I’ve watched hundreds of YouTube videos riding Amtrak trains and just about every one the photographer/videographer apologize for the very dirty windows. It does not matter how large the windows are if they are dirty.
 #1520772  by Tadman
 
electricron wrote: Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:13 pm Larger windows on brand new coach cars would certainly help with the view. I’ve watched hundreds of YouTube videos riding Amtrak trains and just about every one the photographer/videographer apologize for the very dirty windows. It does not matter how large the windows are if they are dirty.

Absolutely. This is why I'm not interested in Amtrak as a premium cruise train operator, as we see in another thread. If they can't keep windows clean or make the boarding experience not totally suck, how are they going to keep people happy for $5,000 trips? "here's a pack of playing cards, stfu, I'll bring your dinner when I want"...
 #1520777  by Greg Moore
 
Yeah, clean windows would help.

I will say I think they've gotten better over the years and with new hydrophobic coatings and the like, having clean windows should be easier.
That said, at least for something like the Adirondack, Albany may be an ideal location for a decent car washing machine to keep windows clean.
 #1520794  by east point
 
Believe the Rocky Mountain bi levels are too tall for CHI US. Anyone know for sure ? If so it may be time for the clearances at CHI be raised. At present Superliners were observed to be too close to the ceiling to have any kind of CAT.
 #1520837  by Tadman
 
You are correct. The Rocky tall cars are too tall for NYP and certain bridges south of Tarrytown I think. But there are single-level panorama cars both historically (Seaboard) and today (BC Rail/Via). The Via example would probably fit NYP given certain trivial undercarriage mods that all Via cars would need.

https://images.app.goo.gl/waBhbXrwM25cGUB39

Stadler might not be interested in a one-off, but they did build a small fleet for Rocky and would probably do the same for NYS, but single level.
 #1520847  by mtuandrew
 
Tadman wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:34 amStadler might not be interested in a one-off, but they did build a small fleet for Rocky and would probably do the same for NYS, but single level.
It looked like he was asking about Chicago Union Station and not NYP, but I don’t think CHI clears much more than Plate F anyway. In other words, galleries and Superliners.

As for Stadler:
02 TAILOR MADE

Every customer has individual requirements. We meet them with our tailor-made vehicles. Our company’s history started with producing individual vehicles and small-batch series. We are engineers to the core, and can draw on 75 years of experience and expertise to meet all of our customers’ specific wants and needs – and always with the flexibility and speed that only a family-owned business can guarantee.
https://www.stadlerrail.com/en/products/

They sound like they’d be more than willing to build a small batch for New York State. NYSDOT would do well to share the costs with other NEC-area users of course, or with VIA if they’re remotely interested.
 #1520848  by JimBoylan
 
mtuandrew wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:57 amOne problem with Ocean View beyond its orphan status and six-wheel trucks is that as far as I know, its cafe wasn’t consistently (ever?) used in recent years. It’s hard enough to justify dragging a lead sled with you, much harder to justify it when it isn’t even attempting to make money for the company. It seems to be more or less the same as a Superliner Sightseer, so it shouldn’t have been an issue to stock and utilize it the same way.
One year it replaced the café car on a few of the Chicago - Milwaukee trips, back when regional managers had more autonomy to make local decisions.
 #1520924  by XC Tower
 
The sheer scenic beauty of the Adirondack Mountain region along with Lake Champlain, if marketed by New York state could possibly bring many visitors to an area economy where tourist revenue is sorely needed.....The Adirondack with a car similar to the Ocean View with 4-axle trucks to please Amtrak's maintenance people either used or new would be a draw....Without the Ocean View, I am not making my annual October trip....Does anyone know who I could write with New York state to voice this?
Thank you.


XC
 #1520935  by Tadman
 
There's a number of places to start. Your elected officials and those in the concerned area are a good place to begin. You could also consider news outlets in NYC and upstate. Finally, some of the travel and lifestyle publications might be interested. There are the bigger mainstream publications, but also local media like "Adirondack Life" which I usually buy at ALB station to read. Finally, the instagrammers and bloggers are probably pretty tied into this situation and all know each other.

One angle to think of - recall the national Amtrak funding formula (whether it's right or not) of "we need Montana and Nebraska to support the NEC". Consider asking your upstate officials to put 5-10 panorama cars, whether new build from Stadler or retrofits of retired comet cars, in a MTA funding bill that buys new cars for Metro North or Long Island.

Also keep in mind there are nearby states competing for leaf peepers. If Vermont were to start a successful service with a dome car or panorama car, it might goad New York into doing so. Does Green Mountain have anything other than those green pre-war cars? Any chance Vermont would pay for such service on Friday Ethan Allens?

I'm not from the area and I know little of the political climate, so these are just good ideas and certainly not guarantees.
 #1520956  by east point
 
I do not think there will be any consideration of dome cars or Super high cars until the clearance problems at CHI union station is fixed. Amtrak certainly will not support the purchase of cars that cannot clear at CHI.
 #1520959  by Tadman
 
I'm not aware there is any clearance problem at Chicago. They run superliners and gallery cars on all tracks every day. You'd have to have something really tall for a problem.

The only problem I'm aware of was when either 261 or 4449 tried to fit somewhere about ten years ago at CUS there was a problem. But that's a real rare case and not something to worry about when planning a business case.
 #1520962  by mtuandrew
 
Regular domes are ok at CUS, they’re about the same height as a Superliner. I don’t think the super-tall Ultra Domes (as used for the cruise trains) are ok in Chicago Union Station - they’re the height of a double-stack container train, and the station isn’t designed for those.

I’m not sure why the Ultra Domes are coming up in conversation here. Several of us were discussing a single-level dome as are used by VIA, and as were once used by the Seaboard Air Line Railroad. These would fit within NYP and the North River Tunnels, let alone Chicago.
 #1520965  by Tadman
 
mtuandrew wrote: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:05 pm I’m not sure why the Ultra Domes are coming up in conversation here. Several of us were discussing a single-level dome as are used by VIA, and as were once used by the Seaboard Air Line Railroad. These would fit within NYP and the North River Tunnels, let alone Chicago.
I'm glad you said that as I'm not sure why the Ultra domes are in question, either. My reference to the new Rocky domes from Stadler is only to illustrate that (a) they will will open a production line for a small series like 5-10; (b) they are willing to be responsive to custom needs within reason, such as single-level. Stadler is a strong second behind Siemens for the US market right now. They are making quite a few cars for our market and have a plant somewhere like SLC. So far they have not had any trouble with crash testing or initial reliability that I am aware of.

This is really important because part of making Amtrak (or other passenger trains) a truly viable transportation asset is not messing around with delivery dates or initial reliability issues. Disasters like Acela, DE/DM, et al just make it looks like a food's errand (foamer's errand?) and drive away regular passengers.

There's a concept called "friction" with regard to websites. It basically means "how hard are you going to make it to do business with a website?". If you make it hard, people go away frustrated and don't come back. That applies to transportation as well. The more PITA a service is, the more people stay away and tell their friends. I can't tell you how many people in my parents' generation in South Bend remember the beat up orange South Shore cars and the Penn Central and still won't go back 40 years later.
 #1520974  by east point
 
"IF" Amtrak would agree to operate these cars Amtrak would probably require them to have as many of the same parts as a V-2 car or even better the new Siemens cars.