Amtrak Expansion Plan

[trainviews]

Meanwhile in Europe...

It seems like there will soon be freshly designed off the shelf sleepers available from Siemens as Austrian Railways (ÖBB) have ordered new sleepers for their expanding night train network. https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/destinat ... back?rm=a

Of course the routes are single night runs, but aimed mainly at regular travellers and not only tourists. Ridership last year was up 10%

Other interesting tidbits from the article is night train ridership in Sweden is up 43% since 2014 and new services are being planned.

Is Amtrak again reacting to the challenges of previous decades and leaving the opportunities of the present?

[gokeefe]

While I'm sure these solutions can help to an extent they can't change the fact that two cars can't occupy the same space at once. My impression at this point is that the increased volume of traffic will overwhelm any advantages conveyed by AVs.

[Arlington]

Night trains in Europe?
Isn't that compartments with seat benches facing each other? (Seating for 6, 3 facing 3)

And then, in addition to two bench beds there are 4 shelf beds on the walls above?

Where
3rd Class = all six beds for sale*
2nd Class = 4 beds for sale*
1st Class = 2 beds for sale (and option for privacy)

It would take a very new idea of American sleeper service for these European models to be deployed directly here.

* Sharing with strangers.

That said, I think we're overdue for Amtrak to offer night pods similar to those proposed by PriestmanGoode for OBB:
night pods similar to those proposed by PriestmanGoode for OBB

[exvalley]

The Deluxe Sleeper with shower and toilet in the double-decker Nightjet is one of the nicest sleeper cabins in regular service.

[ExCon90]

The accommodations described by Arlington are couchettes, Liegewagen in German-speaking countries. Sleepers traditionally had 3 transverse berths in 3rd class, one above the other (the daytime arrangement being 3 seats facing in one direction), 2 berths in 2nd class, and 1 berth in 1st class. To have privacy you needed a 1st-class rail ticket in addition to a 1st class space charge. Since the abolition of 3rd class in 1956 the above arrangements for 1st and 2nd class remain generally in effect, although both Wagons-Lits (CIWL) and the West German equivalent (DSG) introduced single-occupancy compartments similar to roomettes, but with toilets at the ends of the corridor, sometime in the 1950's. Later versions, such as described by exvalley, seem to be the wave of the future, however.

[Rockingham Racer]

There were no 3rd class couchettes, to my reckoning. Second class couchettes had 6 berths, and 1st class couchettes had 4, with a little better bedding. There was no attendant. Rode both back in the 80s.

Wagon-lits [sleeping cars] had second class and first class, and the number of occupants in the cabin determined the class, for the most part. First class was sole occupancy or with a traveling companion. Second class was with one or two others of the same gender. I once rode Rome to Nice in second classs with two other men. Their wives were in the adjacent cabin.

The attendant took your passport for control [if crossing a border], and a continental breakfast was served prior to arrival at the final destination.

[Arlington]

The NightJet style stuff whether pods or cabin is a really great model of service, but it really does assume that all you really want is to lie down and go to sleep. Personally, I'm a huge fan of "just a pod" (which is why I like the Silver Starvation so much--pay for the bed, not the diner).

And Cabin (24-bunks, $115 each, Santa Monica to SF overnight sleeper bus) seems to well..still be in business. Not going to venture a guess on profits.
The emphasis on "seriously, just go to sleep" shows in the bump-cancelling-electro-mechanical bed:
https://www.ridecabin.com/product

Being a Megabus double-decker, it does have a small seating area on the lower level and maybe that's a handicapped bed down there?

How do people feel about night-only rolling stock? I suspect the economics are actually better:
1) Very targeted "sit now" & "sleep now" usage means they can be very space efficient (stack sleepers tightly)
2) Maintenance is obvious: fix/clean coaches overnight, fix/clean sleepers by day

[STrRedWolf]

I disagree with the idea that AVs will make congestion more acceptable to most users. I think that is likely to be a fringe benefit for some but ultimately intolerable for most.

It's complicated. On the one hand, autonomous vehicles may increase congestion through increased presence on the roadways. For example, in Manhattan it may be cheaper to have your car drive around instead of paying to park if you are ducking into a store. On the other hand, much of our traffic congestion is present because humans engage in driving behavior that exacerbates traffic congestion. Autonomous vehicles can be programmed to operate in a way that reduces the likelihood of congestion.

This article explains some of the latter concepts: https://www.wired.com/wiredinsider/2019 ... ffic-woes/

Take it to the logical extreme... actually, just read some of the early Judge Dredd Case Files from 2000 AD (Galaxy's Greatest Comic!).

AV's that can talk to each other can solve a bit of congestion, but you're just emulating a train at that point... with less actual passenger density. You'll still need buses, trains, etc.

[CarterB]

Night trains in Europe?
Isn't that compartments with seat benches facing each other? (Seating for 6, 3 facing 3)

Nope!!! You are thinking of the liegewagens (couchettes)
OBB had and will have extemely nice bedrooms with upper/lower berth and wash basin, and deluxe bedrooms with upper/lower and toilet/shower.
All of which are nicer than anything Amthrax has to offer. I've ridden the night trains many times, and they are very comfortable, always clean and fresh, and the ride is far superior to Amthrax.

[Ridgefielder]

The NightJet style stuff whether pods or cabin is a really great model of service, but it really does assume that all you really want is to lie down and go to sleep. Personally, I'm a huge fan of "just a pod" (which is why I like the Silver Starvation so much--pay for the bed, not the diner).

And Cabin (24-bunks, $115 each, Santa Monica to SF overnight sleeper bus) seems to well..still be in business. Not going to venture a guess on profits.
The emphasis on "seriously, just go to sleep" shows in the bump-cancelling-electro-mechanical bed:
https://www.ridecabin.com/product

Being a Megabus double-decker, it does have a small seating area on the lower level and maybe that's a handicapped bed down there?

How do people feel about night-only rolling stock? I suspect the economics are actually better:
1) Very targeted "sit now" & "sleep now" usage means they can be very space efficient (stack sleepers tightly)
2) Maintenance is obvious: fix/clean coaches overnight, fix/clean sleepers by day

I could see this working for biz travel between city pairs on the NEC and on routes like NY/Philly-Pittsburgh, NY-Buffalo/Cleveland, Chicago-Twin Cities.

[ExCon90]

There were no 3rd class couchettes, to my reckoning. Second class couchettes had 6 berths, and 1st class couchettes had 4, with a little better bedding. There was no attendant. Rode both back in the 80s.

That reflects the elimination of third class in 1956, when first-class fares were eliminated and the remaining two classes were redesignated upward, so that the old third-class fares applied in the new second class and the old second-class fares in the new first class.
Related point: in couchettes, with no attendant to collect passports, presumably the border officials simply came through the car and woke everybody up; that would really distinguish between couchettes and sleepers.

[Rockingham Racer]

That's exactly what happened, as on my trip from Vienna to Venice one year.

[CarterB]

Related point: in couchettes, with no attendant to collect passports, presumably the border officials simply came through the car and woke everybody up; that would really distinguish between couchettes and sleepers.

Rode Couchettes (liegewagens) for many years on DB in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, and attendant always had pre-collected passports, so you wouldn't be woken in middle of night at border crossing/s. Gave your passport back next morning. And don't worry, they didn't lose or mis reissue your passport.

[east point]

All these "great" plans and changes are just an exercise in wishful thinking. Amtrak is not going to put more different kinds of cars into service until it gets 2 -3 times the number of in service cars as it presently has. That is because that with all the expansion plans and need to fill the present trains with capacity to meet pent up demand. Specialized cars by nature reduce capacity since the need for spares is a higher percentage than the present types. Just look at the lost capacity from not using the food service cars to there full ability.

[gokeefe]

All these "great" plans and changes are just an exercise in wishful thinking.

The CEO of Amtrak has clearly and irrefutably indicated in testimony before Congress that they are seriously considering a different car type than a non-powered trailer.

He has done or attempted to do everything he has said he would. Based on his testimony alone I have no doubt whatsoever that Amtrak will in fact look at an MU configuration of some kind for the Amfleet I replacement order.

I also think that much of Anderson's strategy and policy reflects the team consensus in the C-suite. Amtrak has several senior management team members with long term tenure. Perhaps for the first time in its history (?) Amtrak has a stable base of institutional knowledge at the highest levels.

They have also managed to accumulate precious political capital by eliminating the operating deficit. If this team goes to Capitol Hill and says, "Hey, give us this new equipment and watch what we can really do." I think there's a really good chance they will get it.

Anderson also alluded to "cash retention" in his remarks. That really made my ears perk up. It's government speak for excess revenues or which in the private sector might be termed as "positive cash flow". Don't bother with the word "profit" it's a loaded term in these discussions which has no real meaning to this situation. Too many potential nitpicks about "operating" v. "net" v. EBITDA.

Bottom line is that it would appear that Amtrak has accumulated a pile of retained cash that is well above the levels necessary to cover operations. That in of itself is significant.