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  • Acela II (Alstom Avelia Liberty): Design, Production, Delivery, Acceptance

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1537147  by Gilbert B Norman
 
liftedjeep wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:27 pm As of 23:23 on 3/18, the Avelia Liberty trainset was still in Race Street Yard at 30th Street Station. Seen here in a few night shots:
Gotta say Mr. REDACTED, you and Mr. REDACTED sure know how to invade Race Street - and come out without wearing bracelets and without your "bag limits" confiscated.πŸ˜€πŸ˜€

Also gotta say, the existing Acela looks rather "dated" when compsred with the Avella.
Last edited by Jeff Smith on Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total. Reason: Member ID when Member uses alias and is not necessarily publicly known nor a public figure
 #1537151  by amtrakhogger
 
mcgrath618 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:33 pm
Train2009 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:12 pm As per a post on Facebook's America's railroad Amtrak lovers group, it left at around 7:30 PM tonight headed up from Philly to NYP with #616 towing the set. This is a conform report.
It's still in the 30th St Yard...
They deadheaded the tow train back to NY for eventual DH back to Albany.
 #1537154  by gokeefe
 
I agree that there's a lot of work to be done. But VA has one really big thing finished that NY doesn't. An EIS. They also now have land and the Long Bridge project is funded as well.

I'm not saying it's going to happen tomorrow but if you assume a 30 year lifespan for these new trainsets I think it's a legitimate possibility.
 #1537225  by RRspatch
 
liftedjeep wrote: ↑Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:44 am Group,

Has either one of the two powercars on the set been assigned a road number yet?

Ben
Assigned car numbers are here -

http://on-track-on-line.com/amtk-roster ... tml#avelia

Delivered train sets are here -

http://on-track-on-line.com/amtkrinf-acela21.shtml

Note - this page has not been updated to show the recently delivered second train-set now at Race Street.
 #1537300  by liftedjeep
 
Backshophoss wrote: ↑Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:08 pm Set 1 at Pueblo 2100 and 2101
Set 2 at Race St,2102 and 2103
Following convention set in "On Track On Line"
Awesome!!
Thanks fellas!

Ben
 #1537408  by Jeff Smith
 
While we've been talking in the $2,000,000,000 thread about VA as well (and there's actually a good VA thread somewhere in the MARC/VRE forum too), I find two of my best and thoughtful posters raising very good points. So I ask:

Will there be enough Avelia sets (28, right?) to run extended service into VA? Such an extension doesn't have to be an all at once project; it can certainly be done in phases, and an obvious first goal is F'Burg. Adding catenary at the same time as track while designing and engineering the more difficult remainder to Richmond is a good starting point. I think the service would be a bit more limited south of DC, just as it is east of NY; certainly not the same frequency.

As for NYS, I"m kinda surprised Cuomo, who likes big visibility/big ticket items, with the A-II actually being built in his own state, has not explored Empire service as a destination. Could they throw on a non-electric option? No, it won't go 160. But it would be a heckuva lot better than the crap they run, and a redemption for the train whose name shall not be spoken (cough, Matt, cough LOL). But the line has huge complications, not the least of which is MNRR ownership south of Poughkeepsie, and DC electrification below Croton Harmon.


mtuandrew wrote: ↑Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:21 am
gokeefe wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:14 pm Post Script ... You will be able to hear the shouting in the conference rooms the day it comes out: "Why the f*** does Richmond get Acela service before Albany?!?"

If you think I'm kidding think again. Its no joke at all. Read the tea leaves and you'll see it's already being brewed. Albany may not fully realize it yet but when they do there will be phone lines burning at 1 Mass Ave.
Perhaps, but we will be on Acela III by the time Richmond gets electric service. Lotta rail to build before then, as well as solving the Ashland problem (meaning a tunnel or bypass for CSX) and ponying up for the necessary electrical distribution system and 25kV 60Hz system, undercutting the 1st Street Tunnel in DC to clear wire - oh yeah, and a second Long Bridge.
gokeefe wrote: ↑Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:27 am I agree that there's a lot of work to be done. But VA has one really big thing finished that NY doesn't. An EIS. They also now have land and the Long Bridge project is funded as well.

I'm not saying it's going to happen tomorrow but if you assume a 30 year lifespan for these new trainsets I think it's a legitimate possibility.
 #1537415  by bostontrainguy
 
Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:24 am As for NYS, I"m kinda surprised Cuomo, who likes big visibility/big ticket items, with the A-II actually being built in his own state, has not explored Empire service as a destination. Could they throw on a non-electric option? No, it won't go 160. But it would be a heckuva lot better than the crap they run, and a redemption for the train whose name shall not be spoken (cough, Matt, cough LOL). But the line has huge complications, not the least of which is MNRR ownership south of Poughkeepsie, and DC electrification below Croton Harmon.
They wouldn't run at 160 up there anyway. 125 max probably? Maybe more like 110. I would really like to see someone finally implement the impenetrable barrier solution and create a real high-speed corridor somewhere.
Crossing Gates - Full Barrier.jpg
Crossing Gates - Full Barrier.jpg (70.74 KiB) Viewed 1818 times


Note - For 110 to 125 mph (180 to 200 km/h): The FRA permits crossings only if an "impenetrable barrier" blocks highway traffic when a train approaches.
 #1537429  by Greg Moore
 
There are already spots south and west of Albany where 110mph is possible.
When the Turboliners were being tested, there was one (possibly 2) test runs at 125mph. For that one they had to post flaggers at one of the crossing that normally only had a barrier and lights.

And yes, I would love to see NYS invest in Avelia for the NYC/ALB run. Yes, there are regulations that currently make that "impossible" but regulations can be modified (unlike laws of nature :-).

The bigger issues are money and political will. They don't exist right now in NYS.
 #1537436  by gokeefe
 
Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:24 amWill there be enough Avelia sets (28, right?) to run extended service into VA?
I think the answer is most definitely, "Yes". Amtrak can reconfigure the schedule to whatever it wants. Even assuming the goal of "on the hour" service NYP-WAS it's still doable.
 #1537464  by Tadman
 
Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:24 am
As for NYS, I"m kinda surprised Cuomo, who likes big visibility/big ticket items, with the A-II actually being built in his own state, has not explored Empire service as a destination. Could they throw on a non-electric option? No, it won't go 160. But it would be a heckuva lot better than the crap they run, and a redemption for the train whose name shall not be spoken (cough, Matt, cough LOL). But the line has huge complications, not the least of which is MNRR ownership south of Poughkeepsie, and DC electrification below Croton Harmon.
There's a lot to this idea. It's not the high speed that sells Acela. It's the fact it's competitive with air, and positioned as a premium service. Part of that positioning is the price and amenities and clientele, and a bit is the halo of high speed. But we all know it's not really high speed. That train spends far more time below 89 than above 100.

I have always maintained that a fast-looking, reliable, premium product would sell very well in other dense corridors. It doesn't need to actually go fast. Whether it's Avelia/Acela 2 or something else that looks fast and modern with premium-positioned service, you could probably do well in corridors like Albany, Richmond, or San Diego. Mabye some day the Texas triangle.

Contrast that with the current state of affairs on the Detroit line where you have "business class" that is $15-30 extra, no real amenities, ancient cars, late trains, and the clientele is drunk housewives looking to party in Chicago and "treat yourself" for the "fancy" ticket. Not that same by a country mile. the high powered NEC "Almost Amtrak Joe" types do not want that ticket.

And if you think I'm joking about the drunk housewives thing, indulge me for a sec. I often ride the Wolverine between meetings in Detroit and home in Chicago area. Chicago celebrates Saint Pats on the saturday before the actual holiday, which often falls on a week day. The celebrations include huge parades and parties, its a very fun mess. Two years ago, I'm on my way back to Chicago the day after SPD when four loud tipsy housewives board in Battle Creek and head straight for business. I'm not thrilled as my goals for the trip were (a) sleep; (b) hour or two of work. But I play ball, and ask them where the're going given their prolific green attire.

"We're headed for chicago, baby! Going to party like crazy at the parade!".

"Uh, ladies, the parade was last weekend..." The air left that balloon so fast. I gave them a few adult bar suggestions. I felt a bid bad for them. Besides I wasn't going to get much sleep anyway with the shape the combo Amfleet cafe/business/snare drum was in.
 #1537478  by Matt Johnson
 
Acela actually spends a good portion of its run (on the DC - NY portion at least) at triple digit speeds. That's what enables the non-stop runs to average 90 or so (and even the regular stop Acelas to average above 80 mph).

I would argue that to sell a rail service as high speed, you have to at least solidly beat interstate driving time between endpoints. And based on that, yes, the NY to Boston portion of the NEC is marginal at best.
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