Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

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Backshophoss
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Re: Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

Post by Backshophoss » Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:54 am

You also need to change over to NJT's 25 kv 60 hz power if you want to use Hoboken,as it is, NJT needs to change over to 13kv 25hz on the Midtown directs
to Penn Station.
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RRspatch
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Re: Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

Post by RRspatch » Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:22 am

Backshophoss wrote:You also need to change over to NJT's 25 kv 60 hz power if you want to use Hoboken,as it is, NJT needs to change over to 13kv 25hz on the Midtown directs
to Penn Station.
There's a phase break/dead section (25Hz/60Hz) in the middle of the Waterfront connection as far as I know. Amtrak's ACS64 of course have no problem with the transition. Capacity issues at Hoboken would be the problem here.
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Backshophoss
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Re: Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

Post by Backshophoss » Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:04 am

As it stands now,NJT has NOT returned 1 of the station tracks at Hoboken due to missing "Bumper Block",and is at capy for just their trains,
Adding some Amtrak Regionals to this mix would make Hoboken as stuffed as NY Penn,just not worth the added traffic.
Empire service seems to work at GCT since there's some "wiggle" room to handle the traffic, due to the running repair shop was moved to
along the Hudson Line at Highbridge.
Back when NYC still existed,there were constant shuttle moves to / from MO Yard to keep GCT fluid
NJT does not have the space at Hoboken,and MMC is not that close by.
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ThirdRail7
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Re: Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

Post by ThirdRail7 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:31 am

RRspatch wrote: As far as getting to Hoboken is concerned only one side of the Waterfront Connection (eastbound side) was built. The westbound side, a flyover that goes over PATH, wasn't built. Since there's only one connecting track for trains off of the NEC to NJT I'm sure NJT wouldn't want the added traffic on what is probably already a congested stretch of track. I know some of the Raritan trains go that way, do any other trains come off the corridor using that connecting track?
I believe they had a few Coast Line trains and one NEC using it prior to the summer track work. I don't seen an Amtrak regional ever appearing in Hoboken but I believe NJT should divert some of their trains as necessary instead of stuffing Penn.
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Re: Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

Post by gokeefe » Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:57 pm

Amazing in many ways to read this thread considering that "crowding" was hardly an issue as recently as 25 years ago +/-.

We are witnessing a new "Golden Age" of passenger train travel ...
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R36 Combine Coach
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Re: Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

Post by R36 Combine Coach » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:35 pm

RRspatch wrote:As far as getting to Hoboken is concerned only one side of the Waterfront Connection (eastbound side) was built. The westbound side, a flyover that goes over PATH, wasn't built. Since there's only one connecting track for trains off of the NEC to NJT I'm sure NJT wouldn't want the added traffic on what is probably already a congested stretch of track. I know some of the Raritan trains go that way, do any other trains come off the corridor using that connecting track?
Only a small handful of Coast Line diesels still operate via HOB along with one RVL AM peak train. Until May 2008 weekend Raritan Valley service terminated at Hoboken.

I rode a westbound Coast Line train from HOB (arriving at NWK track 4), but didn't pay attention to the track layout. Where do westbound Waterfront trains crossover the NEC (can't find it on aerials)? Or do they wrong rail for some distance?
ExCon90 wrote:True -- by the time the train got to Hoboken, passengers who took PATH from Newark could be at 33rd St. or WTC, the same places they would reach from Hoboken.
Running time on PATH NWK-WTC is 22 minutes. What would be the comparable time to HOB via Waterfront Connection?
ThirdRail7 wrote:The "summer of hell" proved that diversifying your resources and working together with other modes of transportation CAN work. This shouldn't be a competition. All modes should work together to move the people. Hoboken should work to expand operations. This is particularly true since the 7 train reaches to 11th Ave. There is absolutely no reason for a ferry slip not to exist near that station. Multiple ferries to multiple locations should deploy from that location and reach places like Hoboken, Belford, South Amboy, Tarrytown and many places along the rivers. They can feed the subway at its first stop.
The Midtown Ferry Terminal is Pier 79 (39 Street, built at the Lincoln Tunnel ventilation building). The terminal is in a "no-man's land" for transit, since the 7 is at 34 Street and the nearest bus is at 42nd (M42). However NY Waterway operates frequent shuttle bus service in Midtown to/from the terminal. A ferry terminal at 34 Street would be only one block from the 7 and also serve the new Hudson Yards development.
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Re: Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

Post by andrewjw » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:45 pm

R36 Combine Coach wrote: I rode a westbound Coast Line train from HOB (arriving at NWK track 4), but didn't pay attention to the track layout. Where do westbound Waterfront trains crossover the NEC (can't find it on aerials)? Or do they wrong rail for some distance?
ExCon90 wrote:True -- by the time the train got to Hoboken, passengers who took PATH from Newark could be at 33rd St. or WTC, the same places they would reach from Hoboken.
Running time on PATH NWK-WTC is 22 minutes. What would be the comparable time to HOB via Waterfront Connection?
Westbound Waterfront was never built - they wrong-rail a bit on each side of the existing connection.
Westbound HOB-NWK is 22 or 25 minutes. Eastbound is 21. This does not include ferry to WFC.

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Re: Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

Post by ryanov » Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:52 am

I live in Newark, so every single time I use the NY state trains, I am connecting from something. Not sure I've ever found an Amtrak connection with an appropriate schedule, so it's NJT in my case. GCT is not ideal.
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STrRedWolf
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Re: Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

Post by STrRedWolf » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:43 am

You all are losing historical knowledge here.

Before Amtrak, the PRR went all the way to the Jersey shore, and then ferry shuttled passengers into NYC... and it was FREAKIN' SLOW in comparison to today. You had to detrain, walk to the ferry, get ON the ferry, sail across the Hudson, get OFF the ferry, and then walk to the subway. PRR had the insight to actually get a tunnel built in the first place to cut out all that crap and get folks into NYC's Manhattan as fast as possible, and then another out to Long Island.

And now you want to go back to ferries? Something that'll add an extra hour and likely will not have the capacity to haul even a full Northeast Regional over the Hudson in a timely manner (even with extra boats)?

Granted even the PATH train can handle some of the load but not all of it -- NJ Transit had to redirect traffic to Hoboken and get folks on PATH and a ton of extra ferries, and even then it wasn't enough!

We killed that ferry idea back in 1910. Howard Tayler was right. Every few generations, the really really bad ideas come around for another go.
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R&DB
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Re: Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

Post by R&DB » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:15 am

STrRedWolf » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:43 am
I agree with your assessment about time of travel with one exception. The ferries were typical waiting in their slips so the walk onto the ferry was less than 5 minutes and the ferry ride itself was typically 10-15 minutes. Many commuters actually enjoyed the 'slow down' of the ferry ride, especially at the end of the day.
The real problem we have now is capacity. Before the 1960's there were many ferries: PRR, CNJ, NYC, Erie, Lackawanna, NYSW and LV, in addition to PRR's tunnel and PATH. There was more capacity to cross the Hudson in 1950 than there is now. We currently only have ferry service from one railroad terminal: Hoboken. What's needed is new tunnels and Gateway, but that's another thread.
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Re: Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

Post by gokeefe » Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:20 am

The other stopgap measure would be new higher capacity rolling stock.
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east point
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Re: Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

Post by east point » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:04 pm

It is too expensive and would take too much time but could always reactivate CNJ terminal ?

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Re: Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

Post by EuroStar » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:28 pm

gokeefe wrote:The other stopgap measure would be new higher capacity rolling stock.
You will not get anything higher in capacity than the current NJT Multilevels and even those are not enough during rush hour.
east point wrote:It is too expensive and would take too much time but could always reactivate CNJ terminal ?
The CNJ Terminal is gone for good the same way that the old NYP is never coming back. With so much of the infrastructure gone, the cost to reopen it will be half the cost of Gateway for inferior type of service. What is the point of spending all that money?

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Re: Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

Post by Ken W2KB » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:48 pm

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Last edited by Ken W2KB on Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

Post by Ken W2KB » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:50 pm

east point wrote:It is too expensive and would take too much time but could always reactivate CNJ terminal ?
The highly influential environmental action organizations would aggressively oppose this idea. When potential use for display of historic railroad equipment and in the last few years constructing a historic trolley line to shuttle park attendees from the nearby NJT Lightrail station was proposed, the enviro groups made statements such as 'displaying railroad artifacts or operating a trolley shuttle would be commemorating the environmentally disastrous polluting past. The park must remain as an environmental oasis and such use would be entirely out of character and purpose of this park.'
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