Amtrak Sunset East Reactivation Proposal (Including City of New Orleans Extension)

[STrRedWolf]

Believe a good chunk of this is covered in the Sunset East thread,the "news" of a possible sale of the route might be on hold as Mr Foote is
still trying to calm down the customer base after the rash of service foul ups under EHH's brief tenure.
Any return of service to this route, needs the host RR to reasonable on cost of what truly needed upgrades are.
CSX has been quoting HIGH costs as to keep Amtrak from returning since that storm hit the Gulf coast shoreline,
their legal dept worries of another Bay Canot type wreck(Barge vs Bridge,train wind up in the water) between NOL and the Al/FL state line.

The restart of service might be a push-pull consist from NOL to Biloxi MS (Casinos Resorts) and an extension to Mobile Al some time later.

I think everyone but CSX is considering "Restoration of previous service." CSX is saying "Times have changed. Forget your law?"

I can see why CSX is quoting a high figure. A line that's mostly single track, with a ton of drawbridges, that you can verify through Google Maps and Wikimapia's satellite view? It's a matter of double tracking and rebuilding bridges higher, possibly with a new alignment.

Is it too high? Maybe. Or maybe in this instance CSX is really freakin' scared of lawsuits when the next accident on the line occurs, and it will occur! Until we get CSX's justification and plans for the line to support Amtrak service, all we can do is guess why.

[Backshophoss]

Believe CSX legal dept doesn't want the claims from a Haz-Mat spill on that line,is pushing for rail operations to not install PTC there,
Amtrak is willing to fund it's part of the PTC for that route, that could allow a misrouted Haz-Mat load to wander into this line
and wind up in the drink by accident,the bad memories of the BP spill and cleanup would stir up a massive amount of lawsuits
at CSX

At one point not long after the storm,CSX wanted a new line built father inland paid for by the government(via Amtrak).

[markhb]

Was that horrible OTP rating compounded by the Sunset having to come from Los Angeles, with all the potential timekeeping disasters that brings with it? What were the WB numbers?

[Gilbert B Norman]

Yeah, maybe I should have made this a "What Route Should Amtrak Restore" thread?

Mr. Trainguy, sorry to awake you from dreamland, but I highly doubt if the Hometown Heroes Act of 2018 (that's the Spending Bill, volks) provides any provision mandating any restoration of an Amtrak, pre-existing railroad, or inauguration of a new route. During the 70's, there was enacted legislation mandating a number of additional routes, which of course gave the Critters new playthings and brought about such great "winners" as The Mountaineer, Pioneer, Desert Wind, and Spirit of California.

Of course between Democrats Carter and Clinton, they're all gone and not likely to return.

[hi55us]

Most likely restored route is the Vermonter to Montreal... Don't hold your breath on the Sunset East...

[Tadman]

Here's a great question:

WHY?

The Sunset restoration is an awful idea. It requires extending either CofNO or Sunset. Neither is on a passenger-friendly host, which means they would have to hand-off to a third anti-passenger host. The service area is not great. New Orleans is not that big, nobody cares in Pascagoula or Mobile, and nobody from Orlando goes to Pascagoula anyway. CSX is trying to sell the line. There are also no guarantees that Katrina II doesn't come along and tear it all up again in a few years. This makes about as much sense as a train from Cheyenne to Billings, because hey, there was once a train on that route so we have to have one again. Other than not having the money, infrastructure, passengers, or rolling stock, this is a great idea.

If for some reason they can prove the passengers are there, a day train NOLA-Florida would make a heck of a lot more sense. If. But why can't we just let this die? It was never a good idea and that hasn't changed.

[Gilbert B Norman]

A historical note; during April 1963, my Mother and Father were invited to the christening of a Farrell Lines vessel, "African--I know not" (ship fans like Mr. Railnut could zero in on what vessel Farrell christened back then) at Pascagoula. My train hating Father (1909-2001) "couldn't be bothered" with all the Fol de Rol, and opted for a chartered flight NYC to Mobile. But my Mother (1913-78) opted to ride three special cars, including "Crescent Moon" down there. Southbound, they were attached to The Crescent (routed back then PRR-SRY-AWP-L&N), returning on the Piedmont Limited. I recall she said to me that the Diner on the Piedmont "had a very Southern flavor" to it.

[bostontrainguy]

Here's a great question:

WHY?

The Sunset restoration is an awful idea.

Because it's the only one that Amtrak never took off the map.

[Gilbert B Norman]

Mr. Trainguy, Amtrak "never took "Sunset East" off the map" because they never gave 90 days Notice as required under ARAA97.

They "suspended it" after Kat under emergency conditions. Their political support base that counted has left Congress, they were losing "heap big wampum" operating it, and simply left it "suspended". Support for resumption of service, away from train advocacy groups, does not exist; so the "suspension" stands.

Who cares about how many HS marching bands get time off from classes to welcome the VIP carnival; the route is a loser - and that's that.

[David Benton]

I have always thought the connections would work better to the east/ North . A split of a "silver" train at say Savannah , heading south west .
Though I guess the Florida destinations would want a connection to Jacksonville at least.

[jonnhrr]

How much freight traffic is there on that line now? Can't be much if CSX wants to unload it.

I recall "back in the day" - 1972 to be exact the then L&N had pretty frequent freight traffic through there. While at USAF electronics school a few of us lived in a house in Biloxi that was literally next to the tracks and a grade crossing. Lots of train whistles made sleep sometimes difficult. A regular through freight around 4:45 Am was my "alarm clock" for getting up for my 0600 class. Spent afternoons railfanning and you could always count on a few trains.

Would seem to me that with Gulfport/Biloxi and Pensacola there are some decent online population centers. Perhaps the lack of success in the past might be as much to do with the fact that it's been a long time since the area saw passenger trains and it's just too easy to hop on I-10 to head for the Big Easy. Seemed like it was a very car oriented culture there.

Jon

[Return to Reading Company Olney Sta]

It's been over a year now since I've been there, but I used to travel several times a year to Pensacola on business.

When there I stayed across from the civic center at the Crowne Plaza (although last time the hotel had changed brands - don't recall now what new banner is) which is incorporated into the old L&N station.

There was always at least 4 or 5 trains throughout the night, as well as 1 or 2 more in the early evening.

Been over a year now as I said, so don't know if the traffic has declined.

Always got a strange reaction from the reception clerks when I specifically asked for a room that looked down on the tracks!

[Backshophoss]

Most of the Gulf Coast has become a vacation destination,with plenty of Casino Resorts with their own part of the Beach,or private beach access.
There are large cities in this area,Biloxi Ms, Mobile Al,Penscola Fl,and Panama City Fl.

[Tadman]

It is indeed a car-oriented culture because there is not a big population density. It's as dense as the midwest, without the big cities. Where the midwest has Chicago, Milwaukee, and Saint Louis, down here we have NOLA, Mobile, and Pascagoula. To make an analogy, think of the Lakeshore Limited continuing west of Chicago for a night or two and stopping at Rockford, Dubuque, Sioux City, Rapid City, and Cheyenne. Sounds nuts, right?

The statement about the gulf coast being a vacation spot is correct as well. Ergo it would make more sense to have a either a Chicago-Florida train that takes the IC to Memphis, then dog-leg to Mobile and Pensacola. Another idea would be to reinstate the Gulf Breeze. Either one would bring throngs of tourists to the gulf coast. I hate to say it, but in this day and age, the gulf coast might be a bigger tourist draw than than NOLA.

[BandA]

If the lines are so poor maybe the states should buy them now, upgrade them some for freight with long term hopes to restore Amtrak (& CR if there are a few urban areas)