• Will They Ever Return?

  • This forum will be for issues that don't belong specifically to one NYC area transit agency, but several. For instance, intra-MTA proposals or MTA-wide issues, which may involve both Metro-North Railroad (MNRR) and the Long Island Railroad (LIRR). Other intra-agency examples: through running such as the now discontinued MNRR-NJT Meadowlands special. Topics which only concern one operating agency should remain in their respective forums.
This forum will be for issues that don't belong specifically to one NYC area transit agency, but several. For instance, intra-MTA proposals or MTA-wide issues, which may involve both Metro-North Railroad (MNRR) and the Long Island Railroad (LIRR). Other intra-agency examples: through running such as the now discontinued MNRR-NJT Meadowlands special. Topics which only concern one operating agency should remain in their respective forums.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, nomis, FL9AC, Jeff Smith

  by STrRedWolf
 
I saw a report on today's NBC Today show about traffic congestion coming back, but during different times: 10am-3pm. This is mainly due to people working from home and doing some errands during that "lunch hour" with some more flexible schedule.

Related to trains, especially transit, it's looking more like we'll see schedules adjusted more towards slightly less service in the future.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Mr. Wolf, even if "we both see the light", I must wonder if "powers that be" at METRA do.

If I were they, I'd be CX-ing whatever I could of the order for cars with Alstom, and I'd be ringing up an MU builder such as Stadler, and ordering some three car sets (Amtrak is running 380-3 with two Superliners and SC-44, so signals only need twelve axles). For what remains of the "rush hour" couple two or three sets together just as they do overseas.

I think it's time to accept, even as "COVID's on the run" that "they're never coming back".

And even though $6 (Senior; RT) is second only to Blago's "Seniors Ride Free", attending the Symphony is practically the only reason I have to be in the Loop (METRA and a walk X the Loop if by myself; drive if with "GF of sorts"). I'm no longer comfortable using my "poor man's way to O'Hare" - rather pay $100 RT to a "no frills" Livery Car (Honda Accord; no Black Escalade, White Gloves, and $250 RT) and live to tell about it, rather than $8.25 "and maybe.....".
  by scratchyX1
 
The simple fact is, most of the large commuter operations have been in need to going to regional rail type service (like the rest of the world) for years. Instead they've been in cashed strapped status quo, with a few " it would be neat if" studies every so often.
now is the time to hire folks like tfl's Andy B to run operations, follow their recommendations (hiring Spanish management to build out, and just getting herzog or rjcorman to lay track, instead of convoluted contracting system in place), and renegotiate with the Class 1s to get dispatch rights, after adding state owned sidings (which the class ones aren't taxed for).
And then hire developers who know what they are doing to build around stations, and integrate with local transit.
The fact that PACE, Cta ,and Metra / south shore aren't integrated fares is maddening.
  by photobug56
 
STrRedWolf wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:41 am I saw a report on today's NBC Today show about traffic congestion coming back, but during different times: 10am-3pm. This is mainly due to people working from home and doing some errands during that "lunch hour" with some more flexible schedule.

Related to trains, especially transit, it's looking more like we'll see schedules adjusted more towards slightly less service in the future.
Plenty of congestion from 7AM to 8PM. NYC to Long Island, Brooklyn to Queens and beyond, etc. We need to go from Suffolk to the Bronx or Flushing or Brooklyn, etc. and back, and 9 times out of 10, we encounter heavy congestion. Some months ago, 2 hours from Brooklyn art museum to Howard Beach. Coney Island to our house, 2 + hours for 50 miles, Bronx Zoo or NYBG to home can easily be 2 hours. But 10 or 11 to 2 seems the lightest. So I'm guessing that NBC is talking all major cities. I would note that our drives have no easy match via mass transit, since MTA thinks of Long Island and Bronx and northward as to completely unrelated regions. And that's an important point. Commuting from say, Suffolk to White Plains can only be done by car, which is absurd.
  by photobug56
 
scratchyX1 wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 12:19 pm The simple fact is, most of the large commuter operations have been in need to going to regional rail type service (like the rest of the world) for years. Instead they've been in cashed strapped status quo, with a few " it would be neat if" studies every so often.
Andy Byford just retired but I'm guessing he'd take on consulting gigs. Problem is that few cities or agencies want to listen to common sense.
  by STrRedWolf
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:31 am If I were they, I'd be CX-ing whatever I could of the order for cars with Alstom, and I'd be ringing up an MU builder such as Stadler, and ordering some three car sets (Amtrak is running 380-3 with two Superliners and SC-44, so signals only need twelve axles). For what remains of the "rush hour" couple two or three sets together just as they do overseas.
Consider the equipment being run... in fact, here's Wikipedia's rundown which is "close enough for government work."

Anything "before the turn of the century" counts to about 692 coach cars still in operation, a majority of them in the 1950/60 era. 496 coach cars have been built since 2000, not including the new order to Alstom.

Nearly 700 coaches with 50 years on them. Some of them could call out to the new Alstrom coaches saying "YOU DAMN KIDS GET OFF MY YARD!" You can't run them forever -- safety regs change over time. So it's time to start replacing them.

Will they do 1:1 replacement? Nah, they'll condense 'em down, change schedules, etc... and I bet LIRR/Metro North/NJ Transit will do as well.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
OK Mr. Wolf, I hear you.

Take the 200 ordered from Alstom; assign them throughout the System to cover (what's left of) "rush hour" and start to retire the rest of 'em. By the time they got to '04 vintage 8600 Control Cars, they'd be blowing thirty candles.

But start looking, again, at what overseas builders have for DMU's to cover off peak, for it's simply absurd to observe seven car consists pass by with maybe 50 butts on the cushions.

I think it's time for many a mass transit agency to accept "they're gone, gone; crying won't bring 'em back".
  by GirlOnTheTrain
 
STrRedWolf wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:41 am I saw a report on today's NBC Today show about traffic congestion coming back, but during different times: 10am-3pm. This is mainly due to people working from home and doing some errands during that "lunch hour" with some more flexible schedule.
I guess this explains why I can't go grocery shopping late morning/early afternoon on a Tuesday anymore without it feeling like a Saturday -_-
  by eolesen
 
GirlOnTheTrain wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:11 pm I guess this explains why I can't go grocery shopping late morning/early afternoon on a Tuesday anymore without it feeling like a Saturday -_-
I've noticed our local Costco has the sample buffet more and more during the week...
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Sorry if I cannot recall who previously made this suggestion, but whoever did, it appears three Chicago area agencies (CSS&SB notably absent) are coming together to "stop the bleeding":

https://metra.com/supersaver

What I find interesting is that they are extending an additional benefit to those on two of the lines - the Rock Island and the IC - where the "affluence level" is less than on the others. Funny though, they forgot the GM&O and the Wabash.
  by nyrmetros
 
The commuters will come back once the corporations start mandating workers come back to the office. However with them having experienced the joy of working from home......
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Mr. Metros, may I reiterate?
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 8:27 pm "Nothing like a good Recession to get the serfs back in line".
....and I think we are staring at that Recession.
  by Ken W2KB
 
nyrmetros wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 12:30 am The commuters will come back once the corporations start mandating workers come back to the office. However with them having experienced the joy of working from home......
Many, indeed most, employers have realized the financial benefit of having many employees work from home. The reason being that the cost of office space is avoided, plus other benefits. For example, if employees report to the office on 2 rather than 5 days of the week, that results in (1) a 60 percent reduction of the very substantial cost of office space, and (2) greatly improved employee satisfaction from avoiding commuting time and expense.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
No mention of rail within this Journal article, but it sure amounts to a concession speech "they're never coming back".

Fair Use:
[Chicago] City officials said last week they would provide tens of millions of dollars in subsidies to revitalize the LaSalle Street corridor whose landmark office buildings made up the thriving center of Chicago business for decades. Since the pandemic, though, the strip’s mostly vacant streets and towers have come to symbolize the slow pace that employees have been returning to office buildings.
While the 200 car order METRA placed with Alstom could not have been worse timed, I think this social revolution that COVID brought to a head that knowledge workers need not convene, i.e. RTO5X, to be productive -and to have their productivity measured.

The MU sets now produced by Stadler - both Diesel and this esoteric dream stuff H2O2 would, with 20/20 hindsight, have been where METRA should have gone.

I've ridden Stadler equipment overseas - no complaints from me!!!
  by octr202
 
A bit of counter-point to the doom and gloom surrounding commuter rail systems from Boston, where ridership is reaching around 3/4 of pre-pandemic levels. And weekend service (which was expanded and made more regular) is now regularly exceeding pre-COVID levels.

https://commonwealthmagazine.org/transp ... th-riders/
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