N&W Y-6b usage

[curmudgeon]

Hi all -

I know that 'roads other than N&W used the Y-3 series of USRA 2-8-8-2,
but does anyone know if any other than N&W used the Y-4, -5 or -6 series, with the "speedcab" & wide Wooten-style firebox?

My Riva (Y-6b) is lettered for Pennsy, & they ran the Y-3, but I'm not sure about this later series on Pennsy.

Any info appreciated.

TIA.

regards,

[jgallaway81]

The Y3 was actually the N&W's classification for the USRA Heavy 2-8-8-2 Mallet. (Acording to the book on the USRA 2-8-8-2 that I have) Any USRA mallet built would have been a Y3 on the N&W, and would have been classed differently on any other road.

The Y4, Y5, Y6a, Y6b and proposed Y7 all were 2-8-8-2 compound mallets with further refinments, upgrades & technological developments. Only N&W ever managed to create a stable, powerful drag 2-8-8-2. All the other roads never spent the effort on the compounds instead shifting to the easier to maintain simple expansion x-8-8-x (2-8-8-4 Yellowstones & 4-8-8-2 Cabforwards & 4-8-8-4 Big Boys)

Pennsy might have tinkered with their 2-8-8-2's, but nothing anywhere near the Y6b's ever ran PRR's rails unless they were leased during the after-war crunch during dieselization

[curmudgeon]

Thanks for the reply, J.D. -

I know N&W released several 3's to various rr (including Pennsy's HH-1's) during the war, but suspected the 6B's were lettered for other rr simply to increase model sales - neither the first nor the last time, I'm sure.

Informative site for anyone interested in N&W Y-series models:
http://www.ja-gps.com.au/n&w/y3model.html

regards,

[timz]

The Y4, Y5, Y6a, Y6b and proposed Y7 all were 2-8-8-2 compound mallets

The Y7 was to be a simple 2-8+8-2.

[curmudgeon]

Just to clear up a minor point -

Was the USRA 2-8-8-2 adopted as the Y-3 on N&W, or did the Y-3 become the USRA mallet?

Which came first and were they exactly alike?

And did N&W use the dash ("-") in their classifications?

Thanks.

[dinwitty]

THE USRA 2-8-8-2 was a standardized design by the government critical for the war effort, N&W upped on its design for their own line since they had heavy grades to contend with and needed a solid locomotive for it. N&W sold off the earlier engines since the newer engines were far better.

The 2-8-8-2's however appeared far earlier than WW2 so its likely somewhere the government looked at designs and chose one.
But I couldnt point my finger saying they said chose a Y3 for the design, as there were other 2-8-8-2's out there non N&W, but USRA design.

[pennsy]

PRR did in fact run Y-6B's. They didn't own them, they did own a piece of N & W. So these were leased engines used when the PRR needed additional horsepower. Since PRR had "sticky fingers" those Y-6B's undoubtedly spent the rest of their lives on PRR, and its subsidiaries, tracks.

[curmudgeon]

Alan -

What is the source of your info?
I've not found any pix/documentation of other than Y-3's on Pennsy.

Thanks.

[erie2521]

The URSA designs were for WWI, not WWII.

[curmudgeon]

This thread seems to maintain a little interest, so I'll have another go:

erie's right, of course, USRA was a WWI rationalization program, but there was a somewhat similar program during WWII to insure sufficient motive power on US railroads.
The link in an above post lists the various Y-3's engine #s & the other 'roads to which they went in WWI.

I still have found nothing to document *Y-6B's* on Pennsy.

I assume, since N&W developed the Y-3 from their own earlier designs, that the USRA design was slightly modified FROM the Y-3.

regards,

[yardboss]

Here's a y-3 in Pennsy colors
http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com/images/prr3700.jpg

[curmudgeon]

Sorry, yardboss, but 3700's not a Y3 2-8-8-2 (Pennsy class HH, rn's 373-379), its Pennsy's 2-8-8-0, class HC.
Here's a sideview showing it clearly.

Pennsy HC 3700
HC1 2-8-8-0.jpg (25.08 KiB) Viewed 13418 times

[curmudgeon]

FWIW, according to "N&W Steam - the Last 25 Years" (Rosenberg & Archer):

The Y3 (50 units -rn's 2000-2049) was a USRA design (perhaps influenced by, but developed apart from N&W).
The Y3a (30 units - rn's 2050-2079) was identical (sic), built for N&W in 1923 after USRA control ended.

regards,

[steamtown]

During WWII N&W wanted to build more "Y" class locomotives, specifically, beginning with the Y6. Because of wartime rationing, the government would only allow N&W to do this if they first sold a predetermined number of existing "Y" class locomotives first. They sold a number of "Y3's" to Pennsylvania, and I am almost positive some were sold to the U.P. and possibly Santa Fe, and Rio Grande. After the sale, N&W was allowed to continue the latest production of "Y" class locomotives.

[mp15ac]

During WWII N&W wanted to build more "Y" class locomotives, specifically, beginning with the Y6. Because of wartime rationing, the government would only allow N&W to do this if they first sold a predetermined number of existing "Y" class locomotives first. They sold a number of "Y3's" to Pennsylvania, and I am almost positive some were sold to the U.P. and possibly Santa Fe, and Rio Grande. After the sale, N&W was allowed to continue the latest production of "Y" class locomotives.

I believe that the diposition was as follows:

6 Y-3 went to Pennsy;
8 Y-3 went to Santa Fe, with 7 being resold to the Virginian;
5 Y-3 went to the UP (along with 30 C&O H-7 2-8-8-2)

15 Y-2 went to the D&RGW
2 Y-2 went to Bingham & Southern

Stuart