Passenger Rail Before Amtrak

[CarterB]

NellieBly,
What a GREAT trip report. Also a trip of a lifetime, given what was soon to follow.

[R36 Combine Coach]

georgematthews,

If you saw that old commuter train while looking down from your train on the embankment which crosses the New Jersey meadow, you may have seen a commuter train of Erie Lackawanna on one of the lines which cut under the embankment and fan out from Hoboken. Some of the ex-Lackawanna early-20th century open-platform steel cars may still have been in service during the 1970s. They easily remind us of the shorter open-platform wooden cars of the 19th century.

The Lackawanna open platform cars and Erie Stillwells were gone by then, as the Comet I diesel push-pull cars were introduced on the Hoboken Division in 1970. The 1930 Morris & Essex MUs remained the only prewar equipment.

[Gilbert B Norman]

In December 1970 my father and I drove my mother and sisters to Union Station in Washington, DC and put them on the Silver Meteor for Florida. We stood on the platform to watch the train pull out: at least a dozen sleepers, Sun Lounge, two diners, several coaches, and a teardrop obs, all matched stainless steel. My father, who was not at all a railfan, exclaimed, "What a beautiful train!" There were not too many North American trains about which you could say that in 1970.....And all of it had to be paid for in cash -- unless, of course, you had a Rail Travel Card.

Actually, Ms. Bly, I'm surprised that during the peak December period there were not some "foreign" Pullmans, such as UP and PRR, assigned to the Meteor. That was the beauty of the Pullman pool, while the livery may not have matched, there were cars that would do duty during the peak Western travel season that would be moved to peak Southeastern travel.

GBN
RTC Cardholder; B-259294 (still have it - albeit in my souvineer box)

Related:

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 55&t=22573

[David Benton]

i think its time you "spilt the beans " on the Rail travel card , Mr Norman , perhaps on the topic , you linked .
Ms Bly , somewhat ironic in that the type of service you describe would be what i would see as a way forward for Amtrak , corridor lenght services been able to be linked to provide a longer distance travel . crews been changed or added mid journey .

[walt]

In December 1970 my father and I drove my mother and sisters to Union Station in Washington, DC and put them on the Silver Meteor for Florida. We stood on the platform to watch the train pull out: at least a dozen sleepers, Sun Lounge, two diners, several coaches, and a teardrop obs, all matched stainless steel. My father, who was not at all a railfan, exclaimed, "What a beautiful train!" There were not too many North American trains about which you could say that in 1970.....And all of it had to be paid for in cash -- unless, of course, you had a Rail Travel Card.

Actually, Ms. Bly, I'm surprised that during the peak December period there were not some "foreign" Pullmans, such as UP and PRR, assigned to the Meteor. That was the beauty of the Pullman pool, while the livery may not have matched, there were cars that would do duty during the peak Western travel season that would be moved to peak Southeastern travel.

GBN
RTC Cardholder; B-259294 (still have it - albeit in my souvineer box)

Related:

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 55&t=22573

I remember seeing the "Meteor" a number of years earlier ( In the mid 1950's) as it came through Philadelphia's 30th Street Station.( That was the culmination of a Cub Scout field trip to 30th Street- hosted by the PRR). As has been described, it was the most beautiful train I ever saw-- with completely matched stainless steel cars. And viewing the train from the high level platform, which was always somewhat dark, thus the interior lighting stood out just enhanced the entire picture. I suspect that not using unmatched "foreign" equipment, even during peak travel periods, was intentional.

[NellieBly]

Well, Mr. Norman and I have argued about this in other posts, but in my memory the Seaboard's "Silver Service" trains never carried anything but stainless steel cars. In the winter, cars from Santa Fe and cars with "California Zephyr" letterboards were fairly common, and I believe I remember at least one New York Central stainless steel Pullman. On one trip, our rooms were in a Nickel Plate Road 10-6 car, and I didn't even know what the Nickel Plate Road was, or where it ran.

The ACL trains carried a dog's breakfast of Pullmans from almost anyway. PRR Tuscan red "Imperial" series cars were quite common. I and my sisters liked those because they had small upper-berth windows. I also remember a UP lightweight open section car (probably a 6-6-4), two-tone green NP cars, and other lightweight UP sleepers.

A great treat, when I was in southeast Florida, was to catch either the "City of Miami" or the "South Wind", both of which carried dome cars (the South Wind used an NP sleeper-dome, while the "City" carried a coach dome). They also both tended to have Western sleepers mixed into their consists, making for quite a colorful show.

But for the Seaboard, it was always silver and nothing but.

[Gilbert B Norman]

While I have no doubt whatever that Seaboard had a policy that when foreign cars were assigned to the Meteor, the dictum was out that those foreign cars would be stainless steel to the fullest extent possible, but again I note that requirements of service would result on occasion painted cars assigned.

I could not think of the ill-will that would result if a party who had booked a Drawing Room found themselves involuntarily "downgraded" to a Bedroom for no reason other than there were no Stainless cars available in the New York Pullman pool.

Again I wholly concur with Ms. Bly's observation that on the Coast Line, if it is roadworthy, we'll accept it - paint it in Tutti-Fruity polka dots for all we care!

Should there be continuing doubt, please refer to my Consists topic, October 10, 2008 posting for a Meteor with two PRR Tuscan Red liveried Pullmans in consist. While I'm not saying it was a regular occurrence, it did happen - and forty seven years ago, I documented such a consist, and further to my best recollection observing others as well. Although I was not able to locate documentation of such, to my best recollection a Meteor I rode Wash to Miami during Jan 1967 had a UP Yellow liveried "Pacific--' 10-6 in consist, but again i have no documentation of such.

Finally, allow me applause SAL for having the pride in their flagship to insist to both PRR and Pullman that it will be "stainless' to the fullest extent possible. I'm sure it was woe betide a PRR Yardmaster at SSYd who put a painted car in the Meteor's consist simply "because this one I get to with fewer drills'.

[David Benton]

Interesting . i always assumed Stainless steel cars were from a different era to painted stock . (my only experience of such is Via Rail's mixed ss / blue car consists on the Canadian etc in the late eighties ). From what Mr Norman is saying , were these cars actually a more up market car from a similar era to the painted stock ???

[Gilbert B Norman]

Not at all, Mr. Benton. "Stainless' cars were built for the railroads contemporaneously with "painted' cars.

Now one may wonder about my use of quotations above. Cars were either constructed of Carbon Steel or Stainless Steel. However some carbon steel cars were sheathed in Stainless Steel which ion effect they simply were liveried in Stainless rather than in paint.

However, the Budd company or their licencees, built cars that were constructed of Stainless Steel; most of such were delivered with polished stainless steel exteriors, but some were delivered painted in the road's livery applied to Carbon Steel cars.

The biggest problem with the sheathed cars is that the sheathing made the cars "look pretty' but underneath the "ripe red apple' was one rotten to the core. This resulted in fleets of sheathed, but otherwise Carbon Steel, cars being retired at early age - definitely earlier than their Budd counterparts and even earlier than their painted fleetmates. With the latter, Mechanical Department forces were able to see deterioration and address it rather than having it hidden behind a shiny exterior.

[John_Perkowski]

Stainless and Cor-Ten or Aluminum LW cars were from the exact same era: 1934-1968.

UP M-10000 the City of Salina and CB&Q 9900 Pioneer Zephyr rolled out of Pullman and Budd within weeks of each other in 1934.

For that matter, UP decided they didn't want stainless, so their entire order of 10-6 PACIFIC series cars from Budd was painted either Streamliner colors or, in at least one case, Pullman Two Tone Grey.

[george matthews]

Interesting . i always assumed Stainless steel cars were from a different era to painted stock . (my only experience of such is Via Rail's mixed ss / blue car consists on the Canadian etc in the late eighties ). From what Mr Norman is saying , were these cars actually a more up market car from a similar era to the painted stock ???

Don't they have stainless in Australia? I seem to remember cars like that on the Indian-Pacific. But I don't have much in the way of pics.

[David Benton]

yup George . Budd stainless steel cars were and still are the backbone of all long distance sleepers . posssibly coach as well . except queensland , which had their own narrow gauge design . I think they were made under liscence in aussie .