george matthews wrote: If the EU collapses the three countries would have little alternative to being connected again with Russia. In which case they would need Broad gauge.Thank you for the information, George.
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philipmartin wrote:But I don't think the EU will collapse. I don't even think Britain will actually leave. I do think there will be a Standard Gauge link from Poland up to the coast facing Finland. How long it will take to build it I have no idea but when it arrives there will be good arguments for extending a link into Finland via either a train ferry - so common in Scandinavia - or even a tunnel. And perhaps also a SG link from Sweden. The Swedish link might be achieved by relaying the existing rail line from the frontier, or by building a High Speed SG line to Helsinki.george matthews wrote: If the EU collapses the three countries would have little alternative to being connected again with Russia. In which case they would need Broad gauge.Thank you for the information, George.
Mod note, lets not mention Trump at all.
Dear all,
I just wonder what transportation needs a standard gauge link from Poland to say Talinn (Estonia) by way of Lithuania and Latvia and further by tunnel or ferry to Helsinki would serve.
When I was in the Baltic states there were no cross border train connections between Estonia Latvia and Lithuania. In order to get from Talinn (the capital of Estonia) to Riga (the capital of Latvia) I had to take the bus. The same for getting from Riga to Vilnius (the capital of Lithuania).
Also in all three countries there where a lot of freight trains coming from Russia and going to various Baltic harbours.
For this post I checked on Bing maps and I could not trace an existing cross border rail connection between Poland and Lithuania with breach of gauge naturally. I did find a rail line coming from north-eastern Poland crossing the Polish/Lithuanian border but appears to end in Alythus so with no connection further into Lituania.
And if Lithuania decides to standard gauge its railway lines, Russia would take a say in that because of the corridor trains running through Lithuania to the Russian enclave around Kaliningrad.
As to the rail connection between Sweden and Finland, according the time table there are two freight trains from Boden to Haparanda (Sweden) both ways. Standard gauge is extended across the Torne River which forms the border between Sweden and Finland into the Finish town of Tornio, also broad gauge comes across the Torne River into Haparanda. Last summer I observed that the standard gauge rails going into Finland were heavily rusted while the broad gauge tracks going into Sweden where still a little bit shiny. A few years ago there where bold ideas of a northern Europe rail connection from ice free harbour of Narvik (Norway) into Russia and even further, but as I am writing this not much has happened with respect to that.
Gijs
I just wonder what transportation needs a standard gauge link from Poland to say Talinn (Estonia) by way of Lithuania and Latvia and further by tunnel or ferry to Helsinki would serve.
When I was in the Baltic states there were no cross border train connections between Estonia Latvia and Lithuania. In order to get from Talinn (the capital of Estonia) to Riga (the capital of Latvia) I had to take the bus. The same for getting from Riga to Vilnius (the capital of Lithuania).
Also in all three countries there where a lot of freight trains coming from Russia and going to various Baltic harbours.
For this post I checked on Bing maps and I could not trace an existing cross border rail connection between Poland and Lithuania with breach of gauge naturally. I did find a rail line coming from north-eastern Poland crossing the Polish/Lithuanian border but appears to end in Alythus so with no connection further into Lituania.
And if Lithuania decides to standard gauge its railway lines, Russia would take a say in that because of the corridor trains running through Lithuania to the Russian enclave around Kaliningrad.
As to the rail connection between Sweden and Finland, according the time table there are two freight trains from Boden to Haparanda (Sweden) both ways. Standard gauge is extended across the Torne River which forms the border between Sweden and Finland into the Finish town of Tornio, also broad gauge comes across the Torne River into Haparanda. Last summer I observed that the standard gauge rails going into Finland were heavily rusted while the broad gauge tracks going into Sweden where still a little bit shiny. A few years ago there where bold ideas of a northern Europe rail connection from ice free harbour of Narvik (Norway) into Russia and even further, but as I am writing this not much has happened with respect to that.
Gijs
A few years ago there where bold ideas of a northern Europe rail connection from ice free harbour of Narvik (Norway) into Russia and even further, but as I am writing this not much has happened with respect to that.Norway is in NATO and is most unlikely to want a Russian Broad Gauge link. There are also sheer physical problems. I have taken a train from Sweden to Narvik and returned. The line descends a steep escarpment. It is of course very busy with numerous trains carrying iron ore from the Swedish deposits.
Despite growing concern about the situation in Russia, there are still projects underway to develop railcorridors from Asia to Europe by way of Russia or countries that used to be part of the former USSR.
The Northern East-West Freight Coridor is one of these.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_ ... t_Corridor" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://transbarents.com/2015/08/17/nor ... t-corridor" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It is not about building a broad gauge line into Norway. As to the situation in Narvik, I would be more concerend with the capacitiy of the harbour instead of that of the railway line (Ofotbanen/Malmbanan). Ore trains run approximately on a two-hourly schedule and there are just a few other freight trains and only two daily passenger trains on the line. Modern locomotives like he Iore and Traxx have little trouble with the climb out of Narvik.
The Northern East-West Freight Coridor is one of these.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_ ... t_Corridor" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://transbarents.com/2015/08/17/nor ... t-corridor" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It is not about building a broad gauge line into Norway. As to the situation in Narvik, I would be more concerend with the capacitiy of the harbour instead of that of the railway line (Ofotbanen/Malmbanan). Ore trains run approximately on a two-hourly schedule and there are just a few other freight trains and only two daily passenger trains on the line. Modern locomotives like he Iore and Traxx have little trouble with the climb out of Narvik.
Some observations while traveling through the Baltic nations in late April/early May.
There is a weekend only, standard gauge, train from Bialystok, Poland to Kaunas, Lithuania. On the Sunday AM train that I took, I was the only passenger traveling between the two nations.Other passengers were just going within their own country. This is not a high speed route at all. Although there was no passport check, there were a group of police from both countries observing the trains at the border. Military equipment on trains was very much in evidence on this line.
Kaunas has at least two funicular railways although I did not have time to see them. Vilnius has a railway museum at the station. Several ex Russian engines, both steam and diesel, were on display along with other exhibits.
Although I did not know it at the time, there is now a weekend only service from Vilnius via Daugavpils to Riga. Instead I took the bus, staying overnight at Panevezys, which was my grandparents hometown.
Much to my surprise while there I discovered that there is a 42 mile 2' 6" gauge preserved railway extending eastward from Panevezys. It was not in operation while I was there, but I definitely plan to return to spend time on it. Google "Aukstaitija Railway" for more information.
There is a daily service from Riga via Valga to Tallinn, Estonia. I stayed overnight in Valga, which is right on the border of the two nations. It was a rather depressing place but there was a nice Russian 2-6-2 on display by the station. Riga and Tallinn both have interesting tram lines.
The "Rail Baltica" project seems to be going ahead. I have heard that rights-of-way are being secured
There is a weekend only, standard gauge, train from Bialystok, Poland to Kaunas, Lithuania. On the Sunday AM train that I took, I was the only passenger traveling between the two nations.Other passengers were just going within their own country. This is not a high speed route at all. Although there was no passport check, there were a group of police from both countries observing the trains at the border. Military equipment on trains was very much in evidence on this line.
Kaunas has at least two funicular railways although I did not have time to see them. Vilnius has a railway museum at the station. Several ex Russian engines, both steam and diesel, were on display along with other exhibits.
Although I did not know it at the time, there is now a weekend only service from Vilnius via Daugavpils to Riga. Instead I took the bus, staying overnight at Panevezys, which was my grandparents hometown.
Much to my surprise while there I discovered that there is a 42 mile 2' 6" gauge preserved railway extending eastward from Panevezys. It was not in operation while I was there, but I definitely plan to return to spend time on it. Google "Aukstaitija Railway" for more information.
There is a daily service from Riga via Valga to Tallinn, Estonia. I stayed overnight in Valga, which is right on the border of the two nations. It was a rather depressing place but there was a nice Russian 2-6-2 on display by the station. Riga and Tallinn both have interesting tram lines.
The "Rail Baltica" project seems to be going ahead. I have heard that rights-of-way are being secured
While traveling from Poland to Kaunas I also noticed a rather large, but under-used, intermodal terminal at Sestokai, just north of the border. I have discovered that this is to be part of a new route called "Amber Train", which had its first trial trip on April 20th this year. http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/frei ... igned.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
One more interesting read: https://financialobserver.eu/baltics/on ... ber-train/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A new Ukranian train service is set to start on Sept. 28th from Kiev to Minsk to Vilnius to Riga.
http://belarusfeed.com/minsk-kiev-riga-vilnius-train/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Kiev to Riga fare is set for 59 Euros. There currently is no direct Vilnius to Riga train, only an indirect service via Daugavpils.
http://belarusfeed.com/minsk-kiev-riga-vilnius-train/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Kiev to Riga fare is set for 59 Euros. There currently is no direct Vilnius to Riga train, only an indirect service via Daugavpils.
rhallock wrote:While traveling from Poland to Kaunas I also noticed a rather large, but under-used, intermodal terminal at Sestokai, just north of the border. I have discovered that this is to be part of a new route called "Amber Train", which had its first trial trip on April 20th this year. http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/frei ... igned.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;How are the trains in Poland these days. When I travelled there early 1990's , they had quite new mainline stock , similar to DB coaches of the day . Have they been modernised since?
Moderator worldwide railfan , Rail travel & trip reports
The only train trips I regret are the ones I didn't take.
The only train trips I regret are the ones I didn't take.
David Benton wrote:I went to Poland a year after the fall of the Wall. As in Germany I noticed they had a lot of East German carriages. But they have had plenty of time to to replace them.rhallock wrote:While traveling from Poland to Kaunas I also noticed a rather large, but under-used, intermodal terminal at Sestokai, just north of the border. I have discovered that this is to be part of a new route called "Amber Train", which had its first trial trip on April 20th this year. http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/frei ... igned.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;How are the trains in Poland these days. When I travelled there early 1990's , they had quite new mainline stock , similar to DB coaches of the day . Have they been modernised since?
The Polish trains that I rode were quite good, on a par with other similar European trains. Most of the trains I rode were international ones, so I am really not sure whose cars I was on at any given time. Coming into Warsaw from the Czech Republic, that is from the southwest, the line was being completely rebuilt from the subgrade up. A massive project.