New Adirondack Scenic Thread (ADIX)

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SST
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Re: New Adirondack Scenic Thread (ADIX)

Post by SST » Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:47 am

I find it disturbingly funny that rails to trails "groups" can tear a railroad [a real business] apart for the making of their bike trail but still can't remove the one person in Amherst from blocking the Peanut line trail. This annoys me to the point of supporting the one......just to piss them off.

tree68
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Re: New Adirondack Scenic Thread (ADIX)

Post by tree68 » Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:26 pm

SST wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:47 am
I find it disturbingly funny that rails to trails "groups" can tear a railroad [a real business] apart for the making of their bike trail but still can't remove the one person in Amherst from blocking the Peanut line trail. This annoys me to the point of supporting the one......just to piss them off.
If things go as I think they will, building the trail on the bed of the Adirondack Division will meet similar opposition, and the current "trail advocates" will be nowhere to be seen.
Tree

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D Alex
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Re: New Adirondack Scenic Thread (ADIX)

Post by D Alex » Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:07 pm

Down in NJ, they've shown that you can include a single track ROW with a bike trail (they have a fence keeping them apart), so I don't see why you could combine a train ROW with a snowmobile/biking/hiking trail. What I'd really like to see them do is complete a lightweight set of rails through, something that an RDC could use; buy a couple of classic RDC's, add some skylights, and charge a premium for sightseeing/skiing trips all the way to Lake Placid. You don't need a heavy hulking E-type for that sort of service.

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Re: New Adirondack Scenic Thread (ADIX)

Post by BR&P » Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:24 pm

The physical part of putting a trail next to a railroad is the least difficult issue in most cases (until you come to a tunnel or trestle). But there are a whole bunch of other factors to consider. Liability is a big one. If someone gets from the trail to the tracks and gets hurt, who is going to get sued, a trail group or a railroad perceived to be a "big business" with "deep pockets"? Who pays for the fence? Who maintains the fence? What happens when there is a washout which affects both rail and trail? How about when an action by one - say not removing a beaver dam - causes a problem which affects the other?

The Adirondack is in a more unique (and vulnerable) position because of the intense pressure to tear it up. It may be that the side-by-side is the only way to stay alive. But in many other cases, some trail proponents see a right of way privately owned and want a trail there - somehow thinking there is a obligation of some sort on the part of the railroad. Reality is that in many cases the land they want is the property of the railroad company, which has no gain or up-side to allowing a trail, but has everything to lose.

tree68
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Re: New Adirondack Scenic Thread (ADIX)

Post by tree68 » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:24 pm

The state owns the ROW. The Adirondack Scenic is/was the operator.

The fact that the "trail advocates" shot down a proposed rail+trail should tell you a lot about their ultimate goal. Hint - it ain't a trail.

There are some complaining that the railroad hasn't done anything to maintain the corridor they can't operate on right now. Who are the "trail advocates" going to complain about when the tracks are gone and the trail gets washed out?
Tree

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Re: New Adirondack Scenic Thread (ADIX)

Post by SST » Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:05 pm

D Alex wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:07 pm
Down in NJ, they've shown that you can include a single track ROW with a bike trail (they have a fence keeping them apart), so I don't see why you could combine a train ROW with a snowmobile/biking/hiking trail. What I'd really like to see them do is complete a lightweight set of rails through, something that an RDC could use; buy a couple of classic RDC's, add some skylights, and charge a premium for sightseeing/skiing trips all the way to Lake Placid. You don't need a heavy hulking E-type for that sort of service.
While I'm not familiar with the area in question and therefore I don't know how wide the ROW is, I would support a shared rail/trail.

I have taken my bike on four trails that are on the ROW's of active RR's. None in NY-Imagine that. Are their any?

Lehigh Gorge Scenic Railway. Double tracked, shared trestle crossings and further up a crossing right in front of the green locomotive waiting for the green signal. Take your bike-Awesome. [Jim Thorpe, Pa] Jim Thorpe is also a good place to take the wife/girlfriend.
Image

Western Maryland Railway [Cumberland, Md] Crossed over the track several times and gone through a lighted tunnel and connects with the Allegany Passage. Saw many bikers and runners on the trail path will riding the train.
Image

Clarion and Little Toby Trail [Ridgeway, Pa] Its been a long time since I've been on that trail. There are areas where the path is right up against the rails.

Welland Canal Parkway Trail [Port Colborne] There is a brief section of bike path the runs right next to the active track and you have to cross the track behind the former elevator to continue on the path.

If these railways can figure out a way....why can't we do the same. Well, the common answer to that is....NEW YORK!

Dcell
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Re: New Adirondack Scenic Thread (ADIX)

Post by Dcell » Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:22 pm

Looks like both sides gave agreed to a deal. No more trains to Lake Placid as the rails are lifted for the recreational trail but money goes to upgrading other portions of the rail line.
https://www.adirondackexplorer.org/stor ... rail-trail

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Re: New Adirondack Scenic Thread (ADIX)

Post by traingeek8223 » Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:54 pm

There is something fishy or underhanded going on here. ARPS is either being forced to go along with this deal or DEC is just lying about them being on board. You don't flip flop that quickly and easily without a damn good reason. This whole situation stinks of corruption on NY State's part.
Matt Giardino
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BR&P
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Re: New Adirondack Scenic Thread (ADIX)

Post by BR&P » Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:57 pm

traingeek8223 wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:54 pm
This whole situation stinks of corruption on NY State's part.
I'm just shocked. Surprised and shocked, I tell ya.....

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Re: New Adirondack Scenic Thread (ADIX)

Post by umtrr-author » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:37 pm

Fair use quote:
The rail line, build nearly 130 years ago, is considered historic, and tearing up a portion of the track will diminish its historical value. But Schmid said this is countered by the many people who will visit the Adirondack Rail Trail and learn about the history, whereby otherwise they would not. The plan includes historical interpretation and will reuse as much of the old material as possible.
What is the operational definition of "many people"?

Never mind. I withdraw the question...
George in Rochester NY
The Unofficial Micro-Trains Release Report (among other things)

SST
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Re: New Adirondack Scenic Thread (ADIX)

Post by SST » Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:49 pm

Please remind me of this section in question.....Do you guys use this section for Non-Revenue equipment movement or is this section so bad you can't even operate on it at all.

tree68
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Re: New Adirondack Scenic Thread (ADIX)

Post by tree68 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:04 am

We were using it for non-revenue (ferry) moves.

What kind of shape it's in now is hard to say. Since we haven't been able to use it, we haven't been paying much attention to it.

DOT just fixed a big washout that would have put a real crimp into snowmobiling. The track was hanging in the air. If the railroad had use of the track for the past few years, that would have been nipped in the bud.
Tree

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SST
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Re: New Adirondack Scenic Thread (ADIX)

Post by SST » Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:47 pm

Was the washout the reason you stopped ferrying equipment? And with the washout repaired, can the ferrying of equipment resume and therefore justifying this section remain a railroad?

I guess I ask these questions because I find it interesting that the DOT would spend the money on a section that stands at the brink of abandonment. At least that's the way it looks from my "arm chair."

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Re: New Adirondack Scenic Thread (ADIX)

Post by BR&P » Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:03 pm

Schmid, a natural resources planner for the DEC, said past proposals for side-by-side rail trail and train track were unworkable, in large part because the track pierces wetlands that would not accommodate an adjoining trail.
So in the great vast wilderness, it's going to ruin the planet if they take a 15 foot strip of wetland and fill it to make the trail here and there? These people are beyond nuts!

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Re: New Adirondack Scenic Thread (ADIX)

Post by SteelRail » Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:32 pm

I received this email from ARPS today:
TO THE MEMBERS, RIDERS, VOLUNTEERS, SUPPORTERS OF THE ADIRONDACK RAILWAY PRESERVATION SOCIETY AND THE ADIRONDACK SCENIC RAILROAD

We write to clarify recent news coverage and provide a balance to the announcement by the NYS Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) of its new “rail trail” plan to amend the 1996 Remsen-Lake Placid Unit Management Plan, the plan that is the governing document for the transportation corridor.

• Since December 2018, members of the executive committee of the Board of ARPS have met often with NYS officials to plan all the elements of the upgrade to Tupper Lake first announced by Governor Cuomo in May 2016.

• In early November the ASR was informed an announcement by DEC was forthcoming that would support the upgrade and we were asked for a supportive comment to be included in the press release – the comment provided is about the upgrade, not the rail trail. There has been no settlement. Any such reference is not accurate.

• The railroad was seriously misled.

Media outlets have been provided all the facts of the ASR position during the past five years. The ASR won the case at the Supreme Court and it is NYS agencies that have to comply with their laws. The proposed plan must comply with the September 2017 ruling by Judge Main. The ASR reserves the option to again pursue legal action.

The announcement last week by the DEC and the presentation to the Adirondack Park Agency continues the misguided effort that seeks to deprive the communities of Saranac Lake and Lake Placid of a direct connection to the national rail network.

The process is now underway with public hearings. ARPS Board members will attend the hearings to gather information and listen to comments from the public. Written comments will be provided.

We encourage all of our supporters to become informed about this latest plan and to provide written comments no later than December 20, 2019. Details of the presentation by the DEC to the Adirondack Park Agency (APA) last week can be found at https://www.dec.ny.gov/lands/62816.html

Send your comments by USPS to: John Schmid, NYSDEC, 625 Broadway, Albany, NY, 12233-4254
Or by email: adirondackpark@dec.ny.gov

It would be appreciated if you would share a copy of your submission with the ASR: rgh2979@gmail.com

Thank you for your continuing support. This is not over.

Bill Branson
President, on behalf of the Board of Directors, Adirondack Railway Preservation Society
Binghamton, NY area rail scanner feed: http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/19369" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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