What's going on? (Maybrook Line)

[Maybrook fan]

So that's why the tracks were disconnected at 311 in Towners. Is the bridge raising a Metro North or a NY DOT project ???? And is any scheduled to take place yet ?

[DutchRailnut]

they were raised about two years ago , who's project ??? probably DOT if it is for truck clearance.
MN did not have plans to run trains or maintain tracks so its a moot point as to who-what - if- when - maybe - someday.
The right off way was purchased for rail banking and fiber optic right of way, not for trains.

[Jeff Smith]

Part of the reason the bridges were raised was frequent truck strikes. Since the line is disused, there's no disruption to rail traffic taking the rails out or disconnecting them, and raising the bridge. Unfortunately it's not so simple at some other trouble bridges on MNRR (Mamaroneck Avenue on the NEC/NH Line, which gets struck it seems at least once a week).

I think the last strike on 311 was what did it. It took out I think half the bridge over 311. I lived in Patterson for about a year in 1991 and remember that bridge; it's on a curve, and you kind of go down to go underneath it if I remember it right. I never used 164 that much, but a quick look at Google Maps Street View shows the bridges are just as bad.

I used to think it would be nice to have a shuttle service on the line up to Hopewell, even an around the horn service, but outside of Fishkill and Hopewell there's zero population density. It would be an interesting way to get Upper Hudson line or Amtrak trains to White Plains but it's winding and indirect, heading back North on an East axis from Beacon up to Hopewell before heading down to the Harlem. It can't even serve as a detour now in case the Hudson south of Beacon is ever suspended (as the Maybrook did for Danbury Branch fleet). You'd have to regrade the bridge approaches, reconnect the rail, reinforce the bridge, etc. etc. Not going to happen; although it wouldn't look to be crazy expensive. By then, you could just send the equipment up to Albany, across to Springfield, and down.

It could be useful as a "short-cut" freight through route (nothing on line in NY) down to the NEC, but there's no need; after ConRail divested operations on the line and diverted their traffic that was it. Not sure when that happened but I'm pretty sure it was late 80's or early 90's as I remember visiting the area around then and seeing some freight traffic.

Railbanking is meant to preserve it for future rail use, but it's a long-shot.

[YamaOfParadise]

And then you take into consideration the quite steep grades involved in the route; the reason it had continuing value to the NH despite this was solely because of the Poughkeepsie Bridge, which could generate a high amount of through traffic on it that wouldn't otherwise be reachable to them.

One of the few ways I could see the Beacon Line getting use is if there was some intermodal facility in the western half of CT that needed tall cars, be it doublestacks or autoracks. Rebuilding some of the low clearance obstacles is at least feasible on the Beacon Line, as opposed to the NEC, though they are both at Plate C right now (which is 15'6"). I have no idea what the maximum clearance for the Springfield Line is, but I imagine with the Hartford Line service picking up, moving freight on it is getting more and more undesirable. That being said, I don't think it is particularly probable an intermodal facility of the caliber needed for those kind of investments is going to come along here. And as long as the Housy continues to exist, the only thing the Maybrook Line is going to see is rust.

In the end, trains returning to the Maybrook is only going to come about as a result of some large and (most likely) unpredictable shift in the region's status quo.

[Maybrook fan]

I don't think the 311 bridge got raised, DOT signs still say 10' 9" clearance. And it caught another tractor trailer about 2 weeks ago.

[AMK0123]

Was told by a Metro North bridge inspector at Route 164 last year that they had raised the bridges by only acouple of inches and it was also done to replace the plate that sits on the concrete bridge abutment. (not sure if I'm saying it in the right terminology). He had told me that every year they still have to go and inspect each bridge and take pictures of them all. If the state had wanted to eliminate any height issues they would have had to take out the bridges completely, especially at Route 311. As Maybrook fan had stated the Route 311 bridge still gets struck from time to time and at least once a week we have to help a truck turn around at the bridge. Two weeks ago I had to handle a truck that struck the Peaceable Hill road over pass. As per policy, Metro North is notified and they usually have a crew inspect the bridge either that day or within a few days.

[DutchRailnut]

the few inches is about14 " or 3 irish dickies.

[Ridgefielder]

And then you take into consideration the quite steep grades involved in the route; the reason it had continuing value to the NH despite this was solely because of the Poughkeepsie Bridge, which could generate a high amount of through traffic on it that wouldn't otherwise be reachable to them.

Not strictly true; the reason this route outlasted the closure of the Poughkeepsie Bridge by 20-odd years was that it served as a shortcut between Southern New England and Upstate New York. The Selkirk-Cedar Hill road freights lasted until Conrail sold the line in the early '90s.

In the end, trains returning to the Maybrook is only going to come about as a result of some large and (most likely) unpredictable shift in the region's status quo.

Elsewhere on this board there's been talk of Hartford Line congestion someday spurring the reconstruction of the last 7-odd miles of the Armory Branch from the MA state line to the old B&A interchange. That's the only sort of scenario in which I could imagine service returning, at least west of Brewster (I think Brewster-Danbury passenger service has a better chance of becoming reality, since that would link Danbury to White Plains-- but I'm not holding my breath on that one either.)

[F-line to Dudley via Park]

The Danbury-Brewster link is *just* fungible enough for non-revenue moves that I doubt it'll ever go fully out-of-service. Whenever Housy caves and sells the CT portion to CDOT it puts MNRR in complete dispatching control of the whole thing. While I doubt that's really going to increase the activity much it does make for a taut, convenient 10-mile link with relatively few grade crossings that's a little more useful for shuttling work equipment or taking a delivery of ballast than waiting for the graveyard shift on the New Haven Line. So I could see a future where it's kept in baseline *operable* shape (as in, it doesn't take a flood to press it into service), and a new grade crossing gets dragged across County 53 for a straight shot into Southeast Yard with the 2 miles to Dykemans abandoned out of redundancy. Hell, if P&W gains local-rights control of the Derby-Danbury portion that is its preferred overhead route to Danbury they might even take a gander on wooing the rock quarry a little bit west of the Danbury Branch at the I-84/US 7 interchange. That's a going-concern prospective customer, though they are unsurprisingly uninterested in doing business with Housy. If P&W can succeed at reeling them in where Housy couldn't that keeps virtually the whole line east of the state line in tolerably operable condition. Re-name the whole thing east of the Harlem Line the Derby Secondary or something more geographically appropriate like that. And, yes, many years in the future maybe there'll be some Danbury Rail Museum excursions that could use it.


Beacon Line west...it's not going anywhere. Dutchess Jct.-Stormville gets its occasional hi-rail moves to the MTA training facility. The rest of it just stays as-is. All the trail plans are for rail-with-trail because MNRR has made it absolutely clear it's not interested in pulling up the rail. So while rust's going to become a factor and those bridges are OOS there's no clock ticking on it. No excuses need to be made to invent some use Dykemans-Dutchess. It'll be well-manicured by the side trail, there'll be speeders allowed on it. And in the 0.000001% likelihood it ever has to go active again as a Harlem-Hudson connector it's no big deal to spend a few grand re-grading the railbed up to the level of the raised bridges and re-connect the stick.

[DutchRailnut]

relatively small amount of crossings ?? 8 crossings in about 10 miles. and when I was on two shuttle moves, after Danbury wash out, those 10 miles were in such shape as to be scarier than shit, even at 10 mph.
but then again it looks great from side line...

[YamaOfParadise]

relatively small amount of crossings ?? 8 crossings in about 10 miles. and when I was on two shuttle moves, after Danbury wash out, those 10 miles were in such shape as to be scarier than *, even at 10 mph.
but then again it looks great from side line...

I'm counting 5 public crossings (as in crossing a public street), and 3 private ones (one industry driveway, one leading to some dirt trails, and one that's part of the town park on Lake Tonetta in Brewster); that's still 8 crossings, but.

I'm sure the track is in bad condition, too, especially on the HRRC side of things; but I don't think anyone's questioning it is in awful condition. The point he was trying to make is that the Danbury-Brewster section of the line actually has some potential use, however small, when HRRC is out of the picture, and then some entity is willing to commit money to make this segment passable.

[DutchRailnut]

public streets are : white street - balmforth ave - maple ave - main street - segar street - joes hill rd - crosby street - pumphouse road plus beach crossing ?
I see no industry crossings anywhere, but what hell I been only qualified on there since Conrail days.

[Jeff Smith]

God you're old.

[FLRailFan1]

Who owns the Maybrook line? Also, what's wrong with the Housy management? It seems it was better run in the 1990s then today! New owners?

[Backshophoss]

Ownership is split,from Derby Jct to the NY/CT stateline is under HRRC control,mangement follows the "guilford" model,
"run it into the ground",then let rot to useless.
From the CT/NY stateline to Beacon via Hopewell Jct is under Metro North control as the "Beacon Branch",RailBanked,OOS,
there're training centers for MNPD and MOW between Beacon and Hopewell Jct,rare runs with Hi Rail trucks and track equipment
to/from Beacon to the training centers,Fiber-Optic comm lines buried along the ROW for MN use.