Conway Scenic Railroad (CSRX) discussion thread

[John Smythe]

I want to say I'm sorry for the hasty writings I just posted.

Ok. One thing. You don't have to apologise for bringing up a conversation starter. It was a great idea and who knows maybe one day it'll happen. We're just toying with ideas that might happen.


Now, I have read an interview with Mr. Swirk and he says he wants to work with Cranmore Mountain. Possibly meaning ski trains? I just wanted to get your thoughts on that.

As far as the possible return of ski trains, I believe the best solution to that would be to have The State of New Hampshire negotiate for purchase that short segment of track / ROW still owned by Pan Am in the vicinity of Ossippee Pit & rehabilitate the track to Conway Yard. Perhaps all the way to N. Conway. The MBTA might be interested in doing what The B&M RR used to do regarding operating ski trains on weekends back in the good ole days. Now I'm sure that would take a lot of automobiles off of Route 16 both during Winter & Summer.


The out of service line between Intervale East to The Maine / New Hampshire if refurbished has a lot of interesting possibilities. Suppose a schedule was created that would allow 1-2 round trips a day to the state line, called " The State Line Train " or something like that? Try it with the RDC car & see how it goes. if the interest is there, then perhaps on days that The Notch Train doesn't run then use it for the round trip. Any ideas anyone?

[Jonathan]

I don't think that that would happen. A broken bridge, and the fact that the tracks haven't been used in years.

[Jonathan]

Another possibility would be to beprovide shuttles to and from Attitash during the ski season

[John Smythe]

Fix the broken bridge, clear the ROW with a tree grinder, re-tie & ballast the rails already there. The NHNC RR has already performed most of the work up to their gravel pit. Lots of old lines get refurbished in this manner, this one is no different. There is the problem with some of the abutters like in the area of just South of Conway Yard who have taken it upon themselves to rip up, pave over, etc the ROW so they can operate a sand & gravel pit, I believe it's state property, advise me if I'm wrong. Just went over the line using Google Earth, looks like it needs a good tree & brush cutting, lots of new ties, if there's a will there's a way.

[CSRR573]

as had been stated in the numerous csrx threads and the conway branch thread, j. coleman is more then willing to set aside there operations and let the rr come back through and operate the track

[John Smythe]

I discovered some perhaps useful information regarding the Conway branch restoration project. It goes back a few years but I believe it's good reading material. Here is the link. Conway Branch Feasibility Study - NH.gov https://www.nh.gov/dot/org/aerorailtran ... yStudy.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Don't pay any attention to the statement " you found the wrong page" This is where you want to explore. Click on the " RAIL " box at the top and enjoy.


Go down 3 posts & some 200+ pages of informative reading. Sorry for the confusion.

[Jonathan]

It seems to be taken down. Can you summarize what it said?

[John Smythe]

https://www.nh.gov/dot/org/aerorailtran ... yStudy.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; It has not been taken down. Click on " RAIL " near the top and you will then be able to override & navigate. This is the article in PDF form. The State of NH really would like to develop the Conway Branch, the propane company is mentioned, along with a few other industries that are situated along the ROW. The state is in favor of allowing NHNC RR to do the freight hauling. I'm under the impression that CSRX would get new roadbed as part of the plan. This means 115 lb welded rail. Try these links as well. https://www.nh.gov/dot/org/aerorailtran ... /index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and https://www.nh.gov/dot/org/aerorailtran ... ilPlan.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[gokeefe]

Conway Scenic is operated as an "insular tourist railroad" a special regulatory designation by the FRA which allows them to operate certain types of equipment and be free of certain operating requirements that would otherwise kick in if another carrier's trains cross into their property.

Any proposal which would jeopardize this status is a non-starter for CSRX.

[John Smythe]

I believe something is wrong with your statement regarding " Insular " The last sentence of (3) spells it out. Rules changed as of 2012.

49 CFR 234.3 - Application and responsibility for compliance.
eCFR
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§ 234.3 Application and responsibility for compliance.
(a) With the exception of § 234.11, this part applies to all railroads except the following:

(1) Operations of a plant railroad as defined in § 234.5;

(2) Rapid transit operations in an urban area that are not connected to the general railroad system of transportation; or

(3) Tourist, scenic, historic, or excursion operations conducted only on track used exclusively for that purpose (i.e., there is no freight, intercity passenger, or commuter passenger railroad operation on the track) and only on track inside an installation that is insular; i.e., the operations are limited to a separate enclave in such a way that there is no reasonable expectation that the safety of the public - except a business guest, a licensee of the railroad or an affiliated entity, or a trespasser - would be affected by the operation. An operation will not be considered insular if one or more of the following exists on its line:

(i) A public highway-rail crossing that is in use;

(ii) An at-grade rail crossing that is in use;

(iii) A bridge over a public road or waters used for commercial navigation; or

(iv) A common corridor with a railroad, i.e., its operations are within 30 feet of those of any railroad.

(b) Although the duties imposed by this part are generally stated in terms of the duty of a railroad, each person, including a contractor or subcontractor for a railroad, who performs any task covered by this part, shall perform that task in accordance with this part.

[ 77 FR 35190, June 12, 2012]

[Jonathan]

Conway Scenic is operated as an "insular tourist railroad" a special regulatory designation by the FRA which allows them to operate certain types of equipment and be free of certain operating requirements that would otherwise kick in if another carrier's trains cross into their property.

Any proposal which would jeopardize this status is a non-starter for CSRX.

No it's not an insular railroad.. If CSRX can only operate their own equipment, how do you explain the transformer move in 2009?

[gokeefe]

You're both right. I guess WW&F would be insular but I keep forgetting that a public at grade crossing makes CSRX otherwise.

[Jonathan]

How does public grade crossings not make CSRX insular? That part of the definition John Smythe posted made no sense to me.

[gokeefe]

It's the exclusion clauses. When a railroad crosses a public right of way it is no longer insular.

[gokeefe]

I am probably also meshing "insular" with being a "common carrier" which are two different things. CSRX is not a common carrier they're a private railroad but they are not "insular" as defined by the FRA. Common carrier status is regulated by the STB and means in effect that the railroad is open to the public (at defined places) for carriage of passengers and/or freight. Scenic railroads have certain exclusions from becoming a common carrier even though they carry passengers and are otherwise open to the public. CSRX is not open for freight although they may make contracted moves from time to time.

Having other railroads run through to CSRX would almost certainly make them a common carrier and that is something I am sure they wish to avoid.