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Will there be any obvious differences both inside and outside between the two generations of Viewliner cars? Like on Superliners, the trucks on Is look very different from those on IIs.

we won't know till CAF builds them.

BuddSilverliner269 wrote:Dutch , the confusion isn't about corridor cars, you said that new Viewliners were being built when in fact I posted proof that they are. You said the confusion is about corridor cars which we all know haven't been ordered yet but you stated no viewliners.

ok my mistake, no need to make a federal case out of it

>>>>>>>BuddSilverliner269 wrote:
Dutch , the confusion isn't about corridor cars, you said that new Viewliners were being built when in fact I posted proof that they are. You said the confusion is about corridor cars which we all know haven't been ordered yet but you stated no viewliners.

ok my mistake, no need to make a federal case out of it <<<<<<<<

It's okay, Dutch. We all know you've been a POW too long.

wow that took you a month to think up ??

Uh, yeah.....some of us have other things to do besides sitting at the computer especially seeing as it's low priority recreational time for me. (Jeez, can't you take a little good natured friendly ribbing, no matter how tardy it is?)

I still want to know what the new cars are going to look like before they build them. After all, I am still one of those insignificant rail buffs.

A tantalizing tid-bit of news about the new Viewliner fleet from the latest issue of Amtrak Ink (Aug/Sep 2011):

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentSe ... 1267284550

I saw the diner mockup in that issue earlier. It seems to depart a bit from the conventional Budd diner by having the second row of windows on top, which seems (to me) "too open" and lacking (or robbing) the romantic diner feel.

R36 Combine Coach wrote:I saw the diner mockup in that issue earlier. It seems to depart a bit from the conventional Budd diner by having the second row of windows on top, which seems (to me) "too open" and lacking (or robbing) the romantic diner feel.

For a standing passenger, the windows certainly do lend a Viewliner diner a far more inviting and open feel. In any case, there was never a "romantic diner feel," or rightly so, since strangers are frequently seated together.

One thing I've been trying to find out. We know the 130 new Viewliners are composed of:

25 sleepers
25 diners
25 baggage/dorms
55 baggage cars

We also know that it's a 5-year contract and that (so far) Amtrak is paying for it one year at a time out of revenues, with the first year paid for. This means I can roughly estimate that the production of 26 cars are paid for. (Yes, I know it doesn't work exactly that way.)

We also know that the first car will come off the line circa October 2012 and that it will be a diner (from the latest Amtrak Ink).

What we don't know is what order the subtypes will be produced in. I think we can assume that all cars of one type will be produced, then all cars of another type -- it makes no sense to set up the assembly line any other way. If the first car is a diner, we can expect all 25 diners to be produced first, which makes sense given the Heritage diner problems.

But what I don't know, which I'm curious about, is what order the *rest* of the cars will be built in. I would guess dorm/bag, then sleeper, then baggage, but I haven't actually seen any official statements.

(Incidentally, with the Viewliner prototype, that's 26 diners; current service apparently requires 15 in service; which means there might be room to add diner service to one more single-level train.)

IMHO, the Adirondack could use one. I mean, beautiful scenery and eating.....who knew?

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That or the Cardinal, which has a longer trip, already has a sleeper, has beautiful scenery, and only runs 3 times each way so wouldn't even need too many diners dedicated to it.

Davis

**sorry for the double-post

neroden wrote:We also know that it's a 5-year contract and that (so far) Amtrak is paying for it one year at a time out of revenues, with the first year paid for. This means I can roughly estimate that the production of 26 cars are paid for. (Yes, I know it doesn't work exactly that way.)

We also know that the first car will come off the line circa October 2012 and that it will be a diner (from the latest Amtrak Ink).

What we don't know is what order the subtypes will be produced in. I think we can assume that all cars of one type will be produced, then all cars of another type -- it makes no sense to set up the assembly line any other way. If the first car is a diner, we can expect all 25 diners to be produced first, which makes sense given the Heritage diner problems.

But what I don't know, which I'm curious about, is what order the *rest* of the cars will be built in. I would guess dorm/bag, then sleeper, then baggage, but I haven't actually seen any official statements.

(Incidentally, with the Viewliner prototype, that's 26 diners; current service apparently requires 15 in service; which means there might be room to add diner service to one more single-level train.)

The Viewliners are designed to be modular cars which can be converted from one configuration to another. If CAF has several final assembly areas, one could be for installing the components for diners, the other dorm-baggage and baggage cars. The delivery sequence has not been made public as far as I know, but Amtrak may have asked for them to be in intermixed order so they can fit out one single level LD train service at a time with the new Viewliner IIs.

If the Cardinal (and other LD trains) survives the coming budget battles, it is a good bet to get the new diner cars and go to daily service which requires 3 consists. That will commit 18 of the 26 diner cars to existing LD train service. And 18 of the 25 baggage-dorms.

My guess is that the plan is - or was - to turn the Palmetto back into the Silver Palm with overnight service to Miami. Might only need 3 additional consists with sleepers & diners if the Silver Star, Meteor, Palm are all identically configured with the occasional addition/subtraction of a coach car or 3rd sleeper car. My guess is that Amtrak might be able to get some efficiency in equipment use and shuffle the consists between the 3 services with the trains running between NYP and Miami on different routes, leaving and arriving at NYP and Miami at different times of the day. The Northeast to Florida is a huge travel market and Amtrak can take better advantage of it with new equipment and more sleeper capacity. Add in some trip time improvements for the VA and NC section if VA & NC can get more funding for the SE HSR (if not this year, later on) and get a larger market share of travelers over time as air fares increase due to increased fuel costs, and the Silvers might do very well on cost recovery numbers.

Champlain Division wrote:IMHO, the Adirondack could use one. I mean, beautiful scenery and eating.....who knew?

What the Adirondack and the other single level medium distance day trains need are Viewliner II sight-seer style lounge cars. The CAF production line will be open for four more years, so there is time for Amtrak - once the budget wars are more settled - to place the order for Amfleet II replacements and add in a bunch of lounge cars into the order if they are inclined to do so.