• Viewliner II Delivery/Production

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

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  by J.D. Lang
 
J.D. Lang wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:48 am Something like seven years, right? I suppose all 25 will all be assigned to silver series trains.
Lake shore Limited to get new V-II sleepers.

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews ... y-section/

Fair use:
WASHINGTON — As the last two of 25 Viewliner II sleeping cars departed carbuilder CAF USA’s Elmira Heights, N.Y., factory this week, an Amtrak official has confirmed that some of the new cars will replace original Viewliners on the New York section of the Lake Shore Limited after Labor Day.

“I’m happy to share that Viewliner II deliveries made earlier this year allowed us to adopt a new route and bring this new car to our Chicago hub,” says Larry Chestler, Amtrak’s vice president of the long-distance service line.
  by west point
 
bostontrainguy wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:42 am If the money can be found, CAF might be the logical choice for updating the VIs, no?
Only with very heavy penalties if work delayed . Also at most 1 -3 cars at a time at CAF.
  by Matt Johnson
 
Why are the Viewliner Is limited to 110 mph whereas the Viewliner IIs are good for 125? They appear to have the same trucks.
  by jp1822
 
Key word - "replace." Sounds like they are merely putting the Viewliner II Sleepers in service on a 1:1 basis, replacing not adding to the capacity of overall sleeper space on a given train line.

Yet, the Viewliner I's are being sent for refurb. But will that just mean certain Viewliner I's will continue to operate and other Viewliner I's will be permanently retired? The article above couldn't ascertain that the new sleepers would augment or add to the number of sleepers running per train line, as was the original plan for the order.

Sad utilization of the Viewliner fleet - Sleepers, Diners, etc. It was even mentioned that Amtrak was "restricting equipment and personnel." Not sure how that's supposed to improve the bottom line or help Amtrak's overall image. High end premium sleeper revenue could actually make a difference.........
  by R.B.Phillips
 
I smiled when I read the names of the last two Viewliner II sleepers cited in the Trains article were two NYC cars last century: Westfield River a P-S 10-6, and Wabash River a 1939 P-S 2-bedroom, 1 drawing room, 1 compartment observation.....
  by jp1822
 
I saw a floor plan layout in one set of documents for Viewliner II's but it's been a long while. I'd be curious in seeing them again myself! Nothing has been largely published that's reached the public domain.

From what I remember seeing the coffee/juice/beverage stand that was down by the shower area - was relocated up near where the storage unit was located by roomette #1/2. There are two common room bathrooms across from the Shower where the attendant's room used to be, and the attendant is effectively in roomette #12. Have to remember that the single level long distance overnight trains still have staff in revenue roomettes - UNLESS there's a Viewliner Bagg/Dorm in the consist. But they are far and few in between, especially since only 10 made it to production.

In a perfect world, Amtrak should send ALL but 14 Viewliner baggage cars back to CAF and make them into Bagg/Dorm cars. Amtrak has designed itself - especially now with their "store equipment and reduce onboard staff" - that they will NEVER end up filling a full baggage car. Reserve 14 full baggage cars just in case. The Superliner Trans/Dorm Sleepers can become full roomette revenue based sleepers. I've even seen the lower level of the crew lounge in the Trans Dorm/Sleeper be used for baggage and M&E. Amtrak still even has Superliner Coach/Baggage cars available if needed. Lot of wasted space with full baggage cars.
  by STrRedWolf
 
Let us think of the worse case scenario. Just pulling this out of thin air, 10 car train, using 2 engines to pull it:
  • Baggage
  • Staff Sleeper
  • Sleeper 1
  • Sleeper 2
  • Sleeper 3
  • Sleeper 4
  • Diner
  • Cafe
  • Coach
  • Coach
Assume every bed is full. For a single Viewliner sleeper: 12 roomettes at 2 people, one bedroom at 2 people, one bedroom suite at 4 people, and an accessible bedroom at 2 people. That's 24+2+4+2, or 32 people per car. 4 cars, 128 people.

Now assume two full travel bags and a carry-on per person. A "full travel bag" here would be is 27x21x14 inches. So we got 256 bags to put into the baggage car.

A Viewliner is 85.33 feet by 10.5 feet by 14 feet from the outside. We can safely assume inside is more like 84 feet by 10 feet by 10 feet. A 2.5 foot path is needed, as well as the doors which look like five feet wide. That's 74 feet by 7.5 feet by 10 feet.

You need 1176 cubic feet of space for that luggage. You got 5550 feet.

Yeah, you don't need a full baggage car. Even half that, you can have racks for skis.
  by jp1822
 
STrRedWolf wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:22 am Let us think of the worse case scenario. Just pulling this out of thin air, 10 car train, using 2 engines to pull it:
  • Baggage
  • Staff Sleeper
  • Sleeper 1
  • Sleeper 2
  • Sleeper 3
  • Sleeper 4
  • Diner
  • Cafe
  • Coach
  • Coach
Assume every bed is full. For a single Viewliner sleeper: 12 roomettes at 2 people, one bedroom at 2 people, one bedroom suite at 4 people, and an accessible bedroom at 2 people. That's 24+2+4+2, or 32 people per car. 4 cars, 128 people.

Now assume two full travel bags and a carry-on per person. A "full travel bag" here would be is 27x21x14 inches. So we got 256 bags to put into the baggage car.

A Viewliner is 85.33 feet by 10.5 feet by 14 feet from the outside. We can safely assume inside is more like 84 feet by 10 feet by 10 feet. A 2.5 foot path is needed, as well as the doors which look like five feet wide. That's 74 feet by 7.5 feet by 10 feet.

You need 1176 cubic feet of space for that luggage. You got 5550 feet.

Yeah, you don't need a full baggage car. Even half that, you can have racks for skis.
With four sleepers (and not sure what single level train travels with four sleepers) you are looking at only 11 roomettes occupied (room 12 is effectively the Sleeper Car Attendant), two bedrooms, and one handicap room. That's 28 people per sleeper, not 32. Four sleepers times 28 x 2 bags each = 224 bags MAX. Most people are not checking two bags!
  by Red Wing
 
And if I'm traveling coach going to Philmont with a whole troop of Scouts along with a few more troop of Scouts. That's a whole bunch of backpacks you forgot about at least for the SW Chief. And don't forget about the other coach passengers either. Also don't forget about the mandatory checked items such as guns. Also if I remember the new baggage cars have special spaces for my bike so I don't have to take it apart which equals more space taken. I grant you that baggage might not be half full all the time or full all the time but I bet it happens more than you think.

I also have to think unlike a plane you can't stuff all the baggage in the hold and go. People are getting off at multiple end and start points for passengers. This means you need more space to organize the baggage to help with speedy departures from the station.
  by Greg Moore
 
The baggage cars used to at least carry more than simply passenger bags, there was definitely fair amount of express cargo and the like and even the occasional casket with deceased.

Now there's also room for bicycles. And remember you want working room to that you can separate baggage by destination and have room to take on new bags, etc.

It's one area where I think Amtrak is being shortsighted. Last time I checked, they still don't really have a completely viable network.
For example, if I want to take my bicycle down to say DC (a wish I had in the past), I have to put it on the LSL the day BEFORE I take the train to NYP and both of us end up on either a Silver Service train or the Crescent.

Amtrak really needs to think about some non-sleeper equipped trains with baggage cars to make such transfers possible. (my example above is not the only such limitation I've run into).

And in a sense, the lack of baggage options becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. If there are few trains with baggage cars, people are less likely to think of it as an option, and as a result , there's less demand, so they equip fewer trains with baggage.
  by STrRedWolf
 
jp1822 wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:38 pm With four sleepers (and not sure what single level train travels with four sleepers) you are looking at only 11 roomettes occupied (room 12 is effectively the Sleeper Car Attendant), two bedrooms, and one handicap room. That's 28 people per sleeper, not 32. Four sleepers times 28 x 2 bags each = 224 bags MAX. Most people are not checking two bags!
As I said, worst case scenario, not likely case scenario (which will be much less). I doubt we had more than two sleepers on a single level.
Greg Moore wrote: Amtrak really needs to think about some non-sleeper equipped trains with baggage cars to make such transfers possible. (my example above is not the only such limitation I've run into).

And in a sense, the lack of baggage options becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. If there are few trains with baggage cars, people are less likely to think of it as an option, and as a result , there's less demand, so they equip fewer trains with baggage.
Agreed, but with better tracking. As you may recall in another thread here, my Boston friend had to go without her bike as it went from Reno to Chicago, then took a detour to New Orleans, then up to Washington (when it should of went direct), then on the Night Owl to Boston.
  by west point
 
Wolf: If and that is a big "IF" Delta does not kill traffic we might see your example actually have 4 or 5 coaches on Meteor and Crescent. That is once Amtrak has enough OBS and diner personnel to operate those trains .
Best way for Crescent would be Bag, sl-1 , sl2, diner, lounge, coach1, coach2. coach 3, coach4, C-5 high load days sl3, sl4. -- Drop Coach3 and Coach4, C5 , sl3, sl4 at Atlanta. -North bound adds dropped cars onto train front. For about $ 300 - 500k Atlanta cars to be serviced with a new passenger stairway to siding holding cars . Passengers could be pre boarded at say 2000 hours. Maybe Amtrak might even allow for passengers to book the earlier boarding. The early boarding could be listed as train 220 with note that boarding shuts off 1/2 hour before scheduled arrival of #20. That could listed as a Oh wait IT could never figure that our !
  by jp1822
 
Red Wing wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:05 pm And if I'm traveling coach going to Philmont with a whole troop of Scouts along with a few more troop of Scouts. That's a whole bunch of backpacks you forgot about at least for the SW Chief. And don't forget about the other coach passengers either. Also don't forget about the mandatory checked items such as guns. Also if I remember the new baggage cars have special spaces for my bike so I don't have to take it apart which equals more space taken. I grant you that baggage might not be half full all the time or full all the time but I bet it happens more than you think.

I also have to think unlike a plane you can't stuff all the baggage in the hold and go. People are getting off at multiple end and start points for passengers. This means you need more space to organize the baggage to help with speedy departures from the station.
Recall original post.... I said to reserve 14 FULL baggage cars. I didn't come up with that arbitrarily:

6 full baggage cars on reserve for the East-West LD trains (max of six train sets required for CA Zephyr, five for SWC)
3 full baggage cars on reserve for the Chicago to East Coast LD trains (max of three train sets required for LSL or CL)
4 full baggage cars on reserve for the Florida train service (max of four train sets required for Silver Service)
1 full baggage car on reserve in general
  by CNJGeep
 
97 (5) had diner Albany and a V1 being bracketed between 2 V2s
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