• Viewliner II Delivery/Production

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

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  by electricron
 
gokeefe wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 12:04 pm I think it's at least in the realm of possibility right now. If Scranton and Allentown can be on a list for service along with Long Island and a new tunnel I think anything is possible ...
The problem with Long Island, Scranton, and Allentown is that you do not need a Viewliner sleeper to go there from New York City.
There are over 600 Amtrak coach cars being or will be replaced, Amfleet 1s and 2s, and Horizon cars. Amtrak can not wait 600 months or 50 years, at a pace of one car per month, to replace all of them. Somebody else is going to have to build them than the very slow factory in Elmira, NY. 50 years is just too long!
  by R36 Combine Coach
 
By comparison the 492 Amfleet Is were delivered by Red Lion over the course of 23 months - July 1975
to June 1977 (final car) - average of 21 cars a month.

The record of passenger car deliveries in North America seems to be NYCT's IRT R33 Main Line class
(8806-9305) with 500 delivered in eight months (November 1962-July 1963) - an average of 62.5 cars
monthly.
  by gokeefe
 

electricron wrote:
gokeefe wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 12:04 pm I think it's at least in the realm of possibility right now. If Scranton and Allentown can be on a list for service along with Long Island and a new tunnel I think anything is possible ...
The problem with Long Island, Scranton, and Allentown is that you do not need a Viewliner sleeper to go there from New York City.
Of course. I was just making a point about the scale and breadth of Amtrak's current strategic perspective. They seem very open minded right now to expansion and the need for growth. I think this carries over to single level equipment.



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  by Greg Moore
 
In light of the news today regarding the Seimens order and the Acela order, starting to think CAF's gaining company...
  by David Benton
 
Acela 1 and Acela 2 now.
and they all have one common denominator, Amtrak and / or state partners.
But I don't think that is the problem , i think the problem is the lack of continuity of orders , not allowing product development , or the fixing of bugs.
Personally , I wouldn't buy the first model of anything, Car , bike , computer , software. Then Again , I don't usually buy new anyway .
  by Matt Johnson
 
I've noticed that the Silver Star and Silver Meteor are consistently running a mix of Viewliner I and Viewliner II sleepers now. I'm wondering if this is the long term plan or if eventually the equipment will be more segregated. Is there any differentiation in the reservation system - i.e. would you like to pay more for newer upholstery, fixtures, etc in a roomette where you don't have to crap next to the bed - or is it just luck of the draw for people making reservations?
  by electricron
 
Matt Johnson wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:01 pm I've noticed that the Silver Star and Silver Meteor are consistently running a mix of Viewliner I and Viewliner II sleepers now. I'm wondering if this is the long term plan or if eventually the equipment will be more segregated. Is there any differentiation in the reservation system - i.e. would you like to pay more for newer upholstery, fixtures, etc in a roomette where you don't have to crap next to the bed - or is it just luck of the draw for people making reservations?
Toilets per passenger should be addressed, because I believe the Viewliners 1s have a better layout than the 2s.
Superliner standard sleeper = 4 Rooms with, 1 Handicap room with, 1 Family without, 14 Roomettes without, and 5 shared toilets. That sums up to 10 toilets for 20 cabins, or one toilet for every 4 passengers. it is a little worse when you just look at just the Family and Roomettes sharing 4 toilets - 4 toilets for 30 passengers, around one toilet for every 7.5 passengers.
Viewliner 1 = 2 Rooms with, 1 Handicap room with, and 12 Roomettes with. That sums up to 15 toilets for 15 cabins, or one toilet for every 2 passengers. No shared toilets at all.
Viewliner 2 = 2 Rooms with, 1 Handicap room with, 12 Roomettes without, and 2 shared toilets. That sums up to 5 toilets for 30 passengers, or one toilets for every 6 passengers. It is a lot worse when you look at 2 shared toilets for 24 passengers, around one toilet for every 12 passengers. Eeeeeek! :(

For those who might be grossed out having a toilet in your roomette, ask your partner to walk the train while you do what you have to do. As for the occasional miss-aim, there are paper towels to clean up afterwards available.
  by Matt Johnson
 
Kind of a funny story now I guess: I took a joyride on the Lake Shore Limited in a roomette a couple of years ago, and I made the mistake of overindulging in the complimentary beverages in Club Acela at Penn Station and then not using the restroom before boarding. I figured, eh, I'll go on the train. Then I get to my roomette, and a nice mother and daughter from England arrive at their roomette directly across the hall and strike up a conversation. I didn't want to say, excuse me while I relieve myself and then close the door and curtains so I could empty my bladder right there, so I held it until I felt like I couldn't anymore and then used the restroom in one of the Amfleet coaches before settling in the Viewliner diner for the remainder of the ride to Albany (my real reason for taking the trip - that and I had to use some rewards points or they were going to expire).

Here's some poor quality video from that ride:

  by rohr turbo
 
electricron wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:24 pm ... It is a lot worse when you look at 2 shared toilets for 24 passengers, around one toilet for every 12 passengers. Eeeeeek! :(
That's really not bad.

Consider Amfleet 1 coach: 2 toilets per 72 passengers!

Plane? Long haul 777 often 6 or even 5 toilets for 235 coach passengers. (and I've been on a transpacific flight where half the toilets stopped working. They then cancelled food/bev service for the rest of the flight with a "Sorry.")

Two years ago I took the LSL in a Viewliner 1. Just ahead of the sleeper was an Amfleet coach that was completely empty the whole trip. I think they positioned this for communal toilets for the Viewliner passengers (which we were grateful for...I do not like toilet right next to the bed.)
  by ExCon90
 
Different times, different outlooks ... when roomettes were introduced in the late 1930's as an improvement over open sections, which they certainly were, having a toilet right in the room was considered a positive advantage over having to put on bathrobe and slippers (or for want of a bathrobe put your pants back on) and go down the aisle to the men's room (I think two toilets and one sink, or one toilet per 12 passengers in a 12-1) and hope one of them is unoccupied when you get there. Of course in a standard Pullman roomette the toilet was under the bed when it was lowered, not next to it, and served as a padded footstool opposite the seat when the bed was raised back into the bulkhead.
  by Alphaboi
 
Also the 1930s was only a generation or so removed from chamber pots being in common use.

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  by ExCon90
 
True -- if you look at the hotel ads in Official Guides from the 1940's and earlier you find two levels of room rates: with and without bath, the bathroom being down the hall in the latter case; there was a chamber pot in every room. In Germany in the latter half of the 20th century the sleepers of DSG, the German Sleeping- and Dining Car Corp., there was a small chamber pot in a rack in the cabinet under the sink, positioned in such a way that the "gray water" from the sink sloshed through the chamber pot on its way to the ballast beneath.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Wholly concur, Mr. ExCon.

I can recall on a 1990 journey overseas, "walking down the hall to the WC" at Hotel Gare du Nord in Paris. Back then, "it was cheap and convenient to the Station and the RATP". You wouldn't catch me at it today. While I hardly need "Le George le Cinquième", I do expect US major brand amenities.

Same song same trip in Sevilla. That one was arranged by friends residing there; "didn't have the heart" to check out - so I endured three nights.

On a 1960 journey with family; Paris Est-Stuttgart (set out; pick up the new Bennie) on the Orient Express, the Wagon Lit had Chamber pots in each room - discretely out of sight.
  by STrRedWolf
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:06 am Wholly concur, Mr. ExCon.

I can recall on a 1990 journey overseas, "walking down the hall to the WC" at Hotel Gare du Nord in Paris. Back then, "it was cheap and convenient to the Station and the RATP". You wouldn't catch me at it today. While I hardly need "Le George le Cinquième", I do expect US major brand amenities.

Same song same trip in Sevilla. That one was arranged by friends residing there; "didn't have the heart" to check out - so I endured three nights.

On a 1960 journey with family; Paris Est-Stuttgart (set out; pick up the new Bennie) on the Orient Express, the Wagon Lit had Chamber pots in each room - discretely out of sight.
I only know of one place with a shared bathroom down the hall -- the Jane Hotel in NYC. They advertise it as such on their web site. Good for an overnight stay.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Mr. Wolf, our respective immediates certainly establish how travel expectations have changed over thirty years - let alone sixty.

Getting this back to the rails, Amtrak was confronted with the dilemma designing the V2S. Passenger complaints about the absence of Economy Sleeper potties on the S-I abounded, so they "retroed" all seventy cars with an Upper Level potty. They also surely had complaints when a Lower bunk passenger experienced a "Yellow shower"; the only alternative was with the V-II's was "down the hall" sacrificing one revenue room in the process.

Of course the Roomette is simply not a two person accommodation - having two beds notwithstanding, for such as adult with small child or two youngsters who know they've signed up for "indoor camping".
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