Union voting update, 2022 contract

Here's the roll call vote for the two Senate bills —

On the Resolution: H.J.Res. 100; A joint resolution to provide for a resolution with respect to the unresolved disputes between certain railroads represented by the National Carriers' Conference Committee of the National Railway Labor Conference and certain of their employees.
https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/ ... _00372.htm

On the Concurrent Resolution: H.Con.Res. 119; A concurrent resolution providing for a correction in the enrollment of H.J. Res. 100.
i.e. the correction to the bill that would add seven days of paid medical leave to the agreement.
https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/ ... _00371.htm


Anyone who is unhappy with the outcome, either way, are encourage to contact they elected representative and senator.

lensovet wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:25 am No other industry has guaranteed sick pay either, so I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

Hate to tell you but all of us in Massachusetts and I quote "Workers in Massachusetts have the right to take time off from work to take care of themselves and their families. " and if you have over 11 employees it's payed

https://www.mass.gov/info-details/earned-sick-time

As I expected... the "clean" as-negotiated agreement and already approved by 8 unions passes. The version with the seven days of paid sick leave added didn't.

Time to sign it and move on, Joe.

Red Wing wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:11 pmHate to tell you but all of us in Massachusetts and I quote "Workers in Massachusetts have the right to take time off from work to take care of themselves and their families. " and if you have over 11 employees it's payed

https://www.mass.gov/info-details/earned-sick-time

"Most workers in Massachusetts have the right to earn and use up to 40 hours of job-protected sick time per year to take care of themselves and certain family members. Workers must earn at least one hour of earned sick leave for every 30 hours worked."

There are limits on who is eligible for sick time under the law.

(k) Employers required to provide earned paid sick time who provide their employees paid time off under a paid time off, vacation or other paid leave policy who make available an amount of paid time off sufficient to meet the accrual requirements of this section that may be used for the
same purposes and under the same conditions as earned paid sick time under this section are not required by this section to provide additional earned paid sick time.

Any company in MA providing paid vacation time (which includes railroads) is already in compliance.

I'm almost certain that railroads allow vacation days to be used for sick or personal reasons. Plus, there are still options to make up time on the extra board...

I don't get why more companies aren't shifting to the term PTO instead of the terms sick or vacation time...

Makes so much more sense to give X days of PTO. Sure, if you're sick your personal time off gets reduced, but that's equitable. I haven't taken a sick day since 1992. I know people who are habitually out of paid sick time each year by April. Why should they get paid the same and work less?

Admin note,

And with the unions successfully busted, this thread is now returning to being a standard topic

Colonel SIR; I'm not completely certain you can characterize the "settlement" of this matter as a "union bust". We must not lose sight that what has been enacted (presume Joe "slipped away" from Manny, Puligny Montrachet, and Crustations to sign it), were the provisions that were collectively bargained under the Act. The Act calls for a Presidential Emergency Board to assist in the resolution of disputes, which certainly means that Joe is empowered to "stick his head in".

My objection to the writings of that Journal reporter was that she reported the Act empowers the President to impose terms, That's a long way from "sticking your head in".

Now if Bernie and Liz had managed to have their separate legislation requiring the paid sick days enacted, then I would call that "union busting". I will concede, however, that the four recalcitrant crafts (and I use that term considering the union mergers that have occurred since I left the industry) were "usurped" by enacted legislation as a "union bust of sorts".

I do think one "positive" that came out of this dispute is that the railroads are not quite, as DPM noted some forty years ago, "out of sight out of mind", unless one is held up at an X-ing by a 120 car Manifest moving @ 25mph.

And finally to Bernie and Liz, encourage your Union pals to serve a Section 6 Notice and start collective bargaining regarding the matter of sick leave. In the meantime, I would encourage field level supervision to be more liberal with granting time off, paid or otherwise, for family matters, which does not include "Miles has a school play" or "Lulu has a runny nose".

Mr Norman depending that sick day, it will still cost you points. They do not care about their employees, ultimate goal next contract one man crews. Soon to be followed by completely autonomous trains. The I-ETMS system is quite capable and is only scratching the surface.

I could foresee a mass exodus of UTU employees once the back pay check clears.

eolesen wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 1:10 am I don't get why more companies aren't shifting to the term PTO instead of the terms sick or vacation time...

PTO is a joke and a race to the bottom. Vacation time is for time off that is preapproved, sick is for normally not preapproved time as is personal. It is unfair to a worker to take a vacation and gamble that they won't have time to cover an unforeseen sickness. But managers going to manage and think its unfair that their employees actually get time off. I'm happy you haven't taken sick time in years many of us aren't as lucky as you.

Railjunkie wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:16 am Mr Norman depending that sick day, it will still cost you points. They do not care about their employees, ultimate goal next contract one man crews. Soon to be followed by completely autonomous trains. The I-ETMS system is quite capable and is only scratching the surface.

Mr. Junkie, even if this sick time was part of a collectively bargained agreement providing for no points assessed, you are suggesting that management, at least on your property, would not honor it? Who am I to say, I'm not there (and am really neither a fan or Amtrak passenger anymore, as well as not seeing a railroad paycheck in now forty two years).

Now regarding crew consists; one man in the cab for almost twelve hours? Who are they kidding? I for one "gotta go" after about eight.

True a Passenger Engineer could just stop the train telling the Conductor "what's up"? Now what is really scary is with the airlines and their proposal to have only ONE Officer on some flights, with another on the ground being "co-pilot" for several flights simultaneously. True, nowadays, an Officer leaves the Flight Deck, an Attendant will move up there, presumably to prevent a rerun of the Germanwings incident and likely the Chinese one as well. Of course, what does she know about flying the aircraft (this isn't one of those "Airport" movies where an Attendant and some 15yo kid handy with Flight Simulatior games landed a plane)?

eolesen wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 1:10 amI don't get why more companies aren't shifting to the term PTO instead of the terms sick or vacation time...

I prefer PTO. I have worked at jobs where I earned personal days similar to the MA law (half day a month instead of an hour per 30 hours) and separate vacation days. One could combine days. They also had specific paid holidays where everyone was off and paid. My wife gets sick pay separate from personal and vacation days ... she must be actually sick to use those. Overuse leads to requests for proof. PTO seems to be a lot cleaner ... where I have worked it was awarded immediately (first paycheck) and no one questions whether you were sick when you take time off (just sick of this place?).

The only issue I have had with PTO is getting the time off. The needs of the business can easily outweigh the needs of the worker. The more notice, planning and coordination an employee does to use PTO the more management approves of the time off ... but no notice calling off work needs to remain a rare event.

That sounds like the problem for railroads and their employees. Railroads don't want to hire people that don't want to work. Workers want flexibility for their time off. I believe a compromise can be found but a "mark off whenever you want without penalty" policy would leave railroads open to everyone taking the same desired days off and major service disruptions.

Red Wing wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:17 am PTO is a joke and a race to the bottom. Vacation time is for time off that is preapproved, sick is for normally not preapproved time as is personal. It is unfair to a worker to take a vacation and gamble that they won't have time to cover an unforeseen sickness. But managers going to manage and think its unfair that their employees actually get time off. I'm happy you haven't taken sick time in years many of us aren't as lucky as you.

Not sure why you think it's a race to the bottom.

Why you're away shouldn't matter. The company has to either keep reserves around to step in and do the work you'd otherwise be doing, or they have to reduce their levels of production (and income) to make up for the labor shortfall.

The employee-company agreement is fairly simple -- we'll pay you X in exchange for your labor, and as part of that agreement, you get to have Y days of time away. 3-5 weeks of combined paid time away comes out to 91-94% work for 100% pay. Not a bad deal on paper.

Does it really matter if you get 10-15 days of guaranteed vacation and 5-10 days designated as sick time, or you get 15-25 days of paid time off that you can decide how to use?

Most implementations of PTO I've seen allow for banking/rolling over of unused time with some limits on how that time from previous years is able to be used (e.g. a qualified leave of absence or illness) and how it's handled at separation (i.e. only accrued vacation from the current year is paid out), so there's the ability to have more time off if you're in relatively good health.

Whether it's 3-5 weeks of PTO or a combination of SK/VC, it still comes out to getting 100% pay for only 91-94% work availability. For a "full time position" that's really not bad compared to the gig economy or being part time.

What appeals to me is that PTO allows an employee added control over the process. You get to make a calculated gamble on whether to use all that time for enjoyment or bank some of it for a rainy day. I usually keep a week of PTO in my pocket "just in case" there's an unexpected illness. Come December, it's nice having that around so I can have shorter days for the month of December when the workload lightens up. Or, I can bank some for next year.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:57 amNow regarding crew consists; one man in the cab for almost twelve hours? Who are they kidding? I for one "gotta go" after about eight.

You must be younger than I thought! I'd believe 4-6 hours for "one".

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:57 amTrue a Passenger Engineer could just stop the train telling the Conductor "what's up"?

I am less concerned for a passenger engineer on an intercity train as they make stops. They can dwell at a station for a few minutes ... perhaps even give the passengers a "smoke break" while they take care of business. A freight engineer would still need to stop (unless the conductor is allowed to run the train). Without those stops pre-planned at passenger stations.

A solo engineer would need to find a good place to stop and not need to respond to the radio during their break. Pulling a mixed train that gets the occasional stop signal would provide opportunities. Pulling a unit train or intermodal would provide less opportunities.

The quest for human decency continues.

I have the same control over my time off too it's just broken up into vacation, sick and personal. But that is also how my Union negotiated, instead of bigger paychecks we negotiated time off and the management requested 3 different buckets because that's how they feel they can hold us accountable.

You never addressed why you think it's a race to the bottom...



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