Union voting update, 2022 contract

Mandating sick leave might kill off the bilateral agreement that exists to pass the clean version. It's one thing to take the PEB as written. It's another to start tinkering with it absent both parties involved (unions and management) having a say.

It also sets a precedent for paid sick leave as a national policy, something the GOP won't go near.

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I hope the latter bill flies, Mr Zuckie.

Both passed the House

From what I've read, the first is expected to pass the Senate, and the 2nd not so sure. Only takes the first passing to stop block the strike.

I found it amusing, if not disingenuous, that the title of the resolution adding the sick leave (7 days, incidentally) is "H.Con.Res.119: Providing for a correction in the enrollment of H.J. Res. 100."

It is a funny sounding way of doing it - but the reason is they needed a way that it would be edited only after passing both houses - so they could still allow for the only passing the first one case. If it was an amendment to the first one - then only an one bill with the sick leave included would get sent to the senate. This way they only combine after passing both houses.

I thought the matter could have been collectively bargained, so I'm personally disappointed that the dispute is on its way to being resolved, as distinct from settled, by enacted legislation.

I must wonder; what if there were a "United Railway Workers of America" or an industry wide union representing all crafts. This was the model of unions that comprised the CIO - Congress of Industrial Organizations. It was the AFL - American Federation of Labor that comprised unions representing crafts, which obviously is a hallmark of the railroad and airline industries.

Obviously, it's widely known that these two overseeing bodies merged during 1955 to become the AFL-CIO.

I must wonder; what if there were a "United Railway Workers of America" or an industry wide union representing all crafts.

I just happened to be reading about Eugene Debs and the American Railway Union. There was such an organization, but it got busted up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Railway_Union No wonder Bernie is involved, considering Debs's later history!

if the 2nd doesn't pass this is just... betrayal lol

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:36 pmI thought the matter could have been collectively bargained, so I'm personally disappointed that the dispute is on its way to being resolved, as distinct from settled, by enacted legislation.

It was. The railroads and unions sat down and negotiated the deal that is being imposed.

I expect the first bill to pass the Senate. I'm not sure the Senate will approve the second bill.

daybeers wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 2:46 am

lensovet wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 2:38 am How detached from reality do you have to be to think that Congress wouldn't step in given that history? With less than a month to go before Christmas and the busiest shopping period of the year?

Which reality is that? It seems you think of railroad workers as essential workers. Shouldn't they get paid sick leave, something which every other developed country on the planet requires?

No other industry has guaranteed sick pay either, so I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

Railjunkie wrote:

lensovet wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 2:38 am I'm not sure what the unions were expecting. We have record inflation. The law allows Congress to force them back to work. It did that in 1991 and again in 1992.

The Labor Secretary said Congress needs to act preemptively…over a month ago. They've been negotiating since 2019, in mediation since 2021, and in the PEB process since July of this year.

How detached from reality do you have to be to think that Congress wouldn't step in given that history? With less than a month to go before Christmas and the busiest shopping period of the year?

How detached from reality do you have to be to think the Class 1s sat at the bargaining table in good faith?? Are they currently??

Look, I don't have a horse in this race. Perhaps that lets me look at this at arm's length without getting all emotional about it.

At the end of the day you have two parties negotiating over a new contract. Each side knows what the other wants and each side also knows what cards the other is holding.

Each side also willingly decided to work in this profession.

Railroaders and airline employees are the only ones in this entire country who can be ordered to work by Congressional action. Both sides knew this going in. Both sides also knew that in the past, Congress has stepped in when a deal was not reached without Congressional involvement, and has not been shy to do it.

So I don't know why this course of action is surprising to anyone at all. Sick pay or not.

lensovet wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:25 am Railroaders and airline employees are the only ones in this entire country who can be ordered to work by Congressional action.

True for private industry -- I'm pretty certain that Federal workers are bound by no-strike clauses, and possibly many state or municipal workers, and have the same inability to engage in self-help beyond picketing and have to maintain the status-quo when their contracts expire & show up to work.

It's always been interesting to me that the rail and airline unions haven't complained too loudly about the RLA's constraints & limits on actual self-help and asked to be moved under Taft-Hartley... My personal feeling is they'd be better off in that they would have more leverage in negotiations, but the trade-off is they'd lose their closed shop protections.

Apparently, the unions would rather have guaranteed dues income at the expense of being able to engage in self-help.

I recall years ago (probably the Reagan era) when talk of a strike came up, it was noted that if a union struck against one railroad, say UP (or even PAR when they existed), it was uniquely legal for the unions to engage in sympathy strikes nationwide and shut the whole rail network down, something that was expressly NOT legal in other industries. I realize that this current discussion is re: a master agreement covering all or a large set of roads rather than just one, but is that "sympathy strike" legal provision still in effect?

Answering Marks question, yes.

Also, the House voted up the seven day sick leave provision.

lensovet wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:25 am

daybeers wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 2:46 am

lensovet wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 2:38 am How detached from reality do you have to be to think that Congress wouldn't step in given that history? With less than a month to go before Christmas and the busiest shopping period of the year?

Which reality is that? It seems you think of railroad workers as essential workers. Shouldn't they get paid sick leave, something which every other developed country on the planet requires?

No other industry has guaranteed sick pay either, so I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

What? Read my statement again; it's about the country. Slightly over 50% of the lowest 25% of the workforce has paid sick leave. It's 35% for the lowest 10%. That's pitiful.

lensovet wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:25 am Railroaders and airline employees are the only ones in this entire country who can be ordered to work by Congressional action. Both sides knew this going in. Both sides also knew that in the past, Congress has stepped in when a deal was not reached without Congressional involvement, and has not been shy to do it.

So I don't know why this course of action is surprising to anyone at all. Sick pay or not.

I don't find the response of the current administration nor Congress surprising, just disappointing. Of course both sides knew this information going in, but why is that not a reason to try?

Senate passes base agreement, fails to pass 7-day paid sick leave amendment.

Republicans being blamed for not voting for the measure over 60 votes.