Turning trains in Grand Central

I was wondering how trians were "turned" going into GC. Every picture I have seen of trains in GC of the 20th have the tail obs at the end of the track. How was this accomplished after the train had arrived and unloaded? Thanks in advance!

There were loop tracks on both the upper and lower levels that went out under 42nd St.
Some trains were taken out to Mott Haven and turned either before or after servicing on the wye there.

When Mott Haven was in service as the coach yard for GCT, inbound trains were taken out of GCT by a yard crew, sent up to the car washer at High Bridge, and then placed in Mott Haven for servicing. Outbound consists were run from MO to GCT and spotted for loading.

If you obtain an old Electric Division employee timetable, you will see the numerous scheduled DHE (DeadHead Equipment) shuttle movements
between MO and GCT.

Some trains were looped out of GCT for MO, but towing movements were more common.

Consists for outbound trains were pulled into GCT. The yard engine (S-motor) would run around the consist at Tower A and shove it into the assigned platform track. If the consist was late, the yard engine could pull straight into the platform, but it would be trapped until the outbound departed. For consists which were assigned observation cars, especially the "Century", "Commodore", and others, the consist would be shoved to the block.

After Mott Haven and High Bridge Washer were closed and servicing was performed in Madison Ave. Yard or the East Yard in GCT, the normal move was to loop the inbound consist, run it through the car washer on Tk. 1 (a later installation), service it, do the necessary switching, and then spot the outbound consiston the assigned track.

Hope this helps.

After looking at a topomap, I was wondering if you mean the Mott Yard at Cedar Park or the yard in Mott Haven? Also, where was High Bridge and East GC Yard? Thanks!

Mott Haven Yard was located where the Harlem and Hudson Division parted coming out of GCT. It was North of the MO Tower which still exists.

The wash rack was west of Mott Haven on the Hudson Division. As I recall, the rack was in the middle with 2 main tracks on either side.

Chris,

The East Yard at GCT comprised Tracks 2 through 10. Track 1 was the through runner off of the Upper Level Loop. Tracks 11, 12, & 13 were
originally yard tracks, but 12 was removed and an additional platform
Tracks 11 & 13) was added. That explains why this platform is at a different level from the others on the Upper Level.

I have Droge's book Passenger Terminals and Trains. I have a few questions about the upper and lower levels of GC.

Was the lower level large radius loop ever constructed that mimicked the upper level loop?

What platforms did trains arrive at during the Central days? The book I have says the trains typically arrived on the "loop" platforms so they could loop the train presumably to take it to Mott yard for servicing.

Why does the lower level map I have show the yard tracks for the upper level and something that looks like walkways to the centers of those platforms (tracks 1-11 and the stub end yard tracks north of these)? Did you have to go to the lower level then walk up stairs to access the upper level yard tracks?

The book says the tracks departed the upper level between I think 54th and 51st streets. How many tracks went between the upper and lower levels?

Thanks

Chris,

1. There are (were) 2 Loops on the Lower Level, the Inside and the Outside. The Outside serviced the Madison Ave. Yard and could handle any type of equipment. The Inner was located at the east (south) end of the platforms, was much tighter, and could be used only by the original NYC heavyweight MU's.

2. The preferred handling of the nYC long-distance trains which were serviced at MO was via the Upper Level Loop tracks. These were the last part of GCT to be completed and were referred to as the "Arrivals Station". However, in peak hours the limited capacity of the tracks and the length of time required to unload a long-distance train meant that many trains went to a stub-end platform. Also, there were some commuter consists and NH trains that went to MO for storage.

3. There were (are) stairways between the levels to allow employees of various departments easy access. Upper Level Yard tracks were accessed off the Upper Level.

What may be confusing is that the book does not show the actual number of trackage levels: Upper Level; Upper Level Loop; Lower Level; and Lower Level Loop.

4. Arriving at GCT, the 4 Main Tracks ended at Tower U at E. 56th St. Going into the Terminal, there were 10 tracks: A, B. F, and J to the Lower Level; C, D, E, G, H, and I to the Upper Level. Downtstairs, Tower B controlled access to the platforms; Upstairs, it was Tower A.

Hope this helps.

Thank you! That helps substantially. What were the original NYC heavy weight units?

Chris,

IIRC, the original heavyweight MU cars were 72'; don't recall the builder or seating capacity.

Some lasted into the 1970's; used mainly on East Bronx locals to Mt. Vernon.

The older MU cars weighjed 138,000 pounds. They had dimensions as follows:

Length over pulling faces:- 69'-3"
Inside length:-58'-11-1/4"
Seating Capacity:- 100
Truck centers:- 44'-10"
In 1966 there were 50 cars still in service. They continued in service untill the 1970's. Road numbers were 4238-4247 (4cars), 4248-4267 (9 cars), 4297-4306 (8 cars), 4307-4316 (10 cars), 4317-4326 (10 cars) and 4327-4336 (9 cars).

These cars were built by Standard Steel Car Company of Hammond, Indiana in 1924 through 1929.

These cars were designed so that they would negotiate the tight curveature of the inner loop tracks. The draft arrangement was approximately 12 feet in length from the pulling face to the center pins of the trucks.

Thanks Ramcat. I misunderstood "heavyweights" at first, but now I understand - so no other coaches could negotiate that curve, very interesting. What was the typical power for the MU heavyweights? Did NYC use P, S or T motors or did they have tier own traction motors like subway cars? Since we are on the subject, anyone know how many electric locomotives (motors) NYC had and what numbers?

The terms Heavy Weight and Light Weight can cause confusion, Some of the late so-called light weight cars weighed more on the rail than some so-called heavy weight cars. Heavy weight cars are usually defined as having fish belly center sills and are of rivetted construction.

The MU cars in question (EMU as opposed to DMU) were self propelled. They had two traction motors in one truck. The other truck was non-powered. These cars received their power fron a nominal 600 volt, under running third rail. EMU means electric propulsion while DMU means the power plant is a diesel engine(s) as with RDC's.