Track work on the NEC

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:04 pm The long-term goal is to have MARC trains get out of the way of Amtrak trains before NCR and onto a new platform off Track 1. There looks to be enough room to build said platform there, although getting an elevator, escalator, and stairs there will likely require reworking the waiting area (which has plenty of room and change, it's freakin' huge).

I found a project description here and one of the noteworthy items described in the project is the reinstallation of a gauntlet track on Track 2 to provide space for widebody freight cars. If/when the fourth track is added between Tracks 1 and 2 and CARROLL (?) interlocking is rebuilt, will this gauntlet be retained long term or removed?

I wish I knew where to look to find a horizontal clearance map for the station limits. I’d like to know how much space there would be between Tracks 2, the proposed fourth track, and Track 1, and if the clearances would be enough for widebody freight.

TheOneKEA wrote: ↑Fri Dec 24, 2021 10:28 am

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:04 pm The long-term goal is to have MARC trains get out of the way of Amtrak trains before NCR and onto a new platform off Track 1. There looks to be enough room to build said platform there, although getting an elevator, escalator, and stairs there will likely require reworking the waiting area (which has plenty of room and change, it's freakin' huge).

I found a project description here and one of the noteworthy items described in the project is the reinstallation of a gauntlet track on Track 2 to provide space for widebody freight cars. If/when the fourth track is added between Tracks 1 and 2 and CARROLL (?) interlocking is rebuilt, will this gauntlet be retained long term or removed?

I wish I knew where to look to find a horizontal clearance map for the station limits. I’d like to know how much space there would be between Tracks 2, the proposed fourth track, and Track 1, and if the clearances would be enough for widebody freight.

I'm kind of wondering why you'd even need a gauntlet track to begin with. Just about all the freight on the south-end between Washington and Baltimore is gone. The CSXT coal trains that run to Bowie might be on short time as well. What's the story on the PEPCO plants at Chalk Point and Morgantown? Are they closing or converting to NatGas? The only wide load I could see going that way would be transformers and other electrical equipment for both plants. Large and heavy electrical equipment could be barged in since both plants are near water . Amtrak pulled the gauntlet switch (No.22 switch) out when CSXT said they didn't need it and weren't going to pay to keep it.

RRspatch wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 1:12 am I'm kind of wondering why you'd even need a gauntlet track to begin with. Just about all the freight on the south-end between Washington and Baltimore is gone. The CSXT coal trains that run to Bowie might be on short time as well. What's the story on the PEPCO plants at Chalk Point and Morgantown? Are they closing or converting to NatGas? The only wide load I could see going that way would be transformers and other electrical equipment for both plants. Large and heavy electrical equipment could be barged in since both plants are near water . Amtrak pulled the gauntlet switch (No.22 switch) out when CSXT said they didn't need it and weren't going to pay to keep it.

Per the above-linked project site:

Reinstallation of a freight gauntlet along Track 2 to preserve wide load service through NCR, per Amtrak’s statutory freight railroad access requirements

IE the law requires them to do it. Now if that can be waved through CSX, NS, and Amtrak petitions, it'll make things less messy at the interlocks.

RRspatch wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 1:12 am The CSXT coal trains that run to Bowie might be on short time as well. What's the story on the PEPCO plants at Chalk Point and Morgantown? Are they closing or converting to NatGas? The only wide load I could see going that way would be transformers and other electrical equipment for both plants. Large and heavy electrical equipment could be barged in since both plants are near water . Amtrak pulled the gauntlet switch (No.22 switch) out when CSXT said they didn't need it and weren't going to pay to keep it.

Those two generating stations were sold by PEPCO over 20 years ago. Chalk Point and Morgantown are currently owned by independent power producer GenOn Holdings, Inc. The coal fired units at Chalk Point were permanently retired and decommissioned earlier this year. Morgantown's coal fired units will be retired and permanently decommissioned this coming June. Additional coal fired unit retirements are anticipated. See: https://www.genon.com/genon-news/genon- ... wer-plants

Ken W2KB wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 11:58 am

RRspatch wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 1:12 am The CSXT coal trains that run to Bowie might be on short time as well. What's the story on the PEPCO plants at Chalk Point and Morgantown? Are they closing or converting to NatGas? The only wide load I could see going that way would be transformers and other electrical equipment for both plants. Large and heavy electrical equipment could be barged in since both plants are near water . Amtrak pulled the gauntlet switch (No.22 switch) out when CSXT said they didn't need it and weren't going to pay to keep it.

Those two generating stations were sold by PEPCO over 20 years ago. Chalk Point and Morgantown are currently owned by independent power producer GenOn Holdings, Inc. The coal fired units at Chalk Point were permanently retired and decommissioned earlier this year. Morgantown's coal fired units will be retired and permanently decommissioned this coming June. Additional coal fired unit retirements are anticipated. See: https://www.genon.com/genon-news/genon- ... wer-plants

Then, I imagine CSX will look to sell the branch off, so Whatever shortline takes over would interchange with the NS job from southbound from bayview, instead CSX from south.
Or, is there such little traffic, that amtrak contracting out to someone else makes sense?

You can check with folks over at the Delmarva/DC board, but I'm pretty sure the amount of non-coal traffic on the branch is zero. Whether the plants shut down entirely or continue operating with natural gas, there will need to be a good bit of remediation (removal of contaminated soil, hauling out disused equipment) and the tracks will likely stay for that (like the NS spur at the north end of Old Town in Alexandria). Beyond that, the only viable future use would be transit/commuter rail of some sort. But that would not involve Amtrak.

Station Aficionado wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 3:33 pm You can check with folks over at the Delmarva/DC board, but I'm pretty sure the amount of non-coal traffic on the branch is zero. Whether the plants shut down entirely or continue operating with natural gas, there will need to be a good bit of remediation (removal of contaminated soil, hauling out disused equipment) and the tracks will likely stay for that (like the NS spur at the north end of Old Town in Alexandria). Beyond that, the only viable future use would be transit/commuter rail of some sort. But that would not involve Amtrak.

Transit in the area? Not bloody likely. The line goes from Bowie to Brandywine, splitting into two branches. The more interesting one goes through Waldorf and La Plata. The thing is that you're overshooting north and have to go back south... and going east to go west. It's not a good time saver, even though there is commuter bus service in those areas.

Getting way off topic here, but I agree that running any sort of transit service all the way from, say, LaPlata to Bowie would be silly. But there could be other options: use the branch as a transit way (pick your mode) from LaPlata to Brandywine and then up Rte. 5 to Branch Ave. Metro--something like WES in Portland. Charles and southern PG have boomed in population in recent years and the 301/Rte. 5 corridor is overburdened. I should, perhaps have clarified that transit use would be a conceivable use of the branch. Given the short-term focus of politicians (and society in general), I don't think it will actually happen. Also, should note that this has no relevance to the Brandywine-Chalk Point section. Absent a use related to the power plant, that track's a goner.

Station Aficionado wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 11:34 pm Getting way off topic here, but I agree that running any sort of transit service all the way from, say, LaPlata to Bowie would be silly. But there could be other options: use the branch as a transit way (pick your mode) from LaPlata to Brandywine and then up Rte. 5 to Branch Ave. Metro--something like WES in Portland. Charles and southern PG have boomed in population in recent years and the 301/Rte. 5 corridor is overburdened. I should, perhaps have clarified that transit use would be a conceivable use of the branch. Given the short-term focus of politicians (and society in general), I don't think it will actually happen. Also, should note that this has no relevance to the Brandywine-Chalk Point section. Absent a use related to the power plant, that track's a goner.

You're in line with me. It'll take a lot of building to connect a light rail line to the track from a WMATA station... and even then I doubt it'll be as fast as the current MTA Maryland Commuter Bus service. The only benefit would be all-day service.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 7:31 pm

Station Aficionado wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 3:33 pm You can check with folks over at the Delmarva/DC board, but I'm pretty sure the amount of non-coal traffic on the branch is zero. Whether the plants shut down entirely or continue operating with natural gas, there will need to be a good bit of remediation (removal of contaminated soil, hauling out disused equipment) and the tracks will likely stay for that (like the NS spur at the north end of Old Town in Alexandria). Beyond that, the only viable future use would be transit/commuter rail of some sort. But that would not involve Amtrak.

Transit in the area? Not bloody likely. The line goes from Bowie to Brandywine, splitting into two branches. The more interesting one goes through Waldorf and La Plata. The thing is that you're overshooting north and have to go back south... and going east to go west. It's not a good time saver, even though there is commuter bus service in those areas.

Smart could use some ROW. The laplata to bowie section (with new route to bowie state) could be used by vavarails pop up metro, with track upgrades.
https://ggwash.org/view/76169/southern-maryland -traffic-prince-georges-charles-county-light-rail-smrt

I was railfanning at Odenton recently and noticed that a lot of the catenary hardware on Tracks 2 and 3 within and outside the station limits has been upgraded to match the hardware already in place on Track 1. Is this part of the ongoing improvements to the catenary intended to support the speed increases for the Avelia Liberty units? Or is this just a basic upgrade to modernize the catenary and maintain it for the existing ACS-64s and Acelas?

TheOneKEA wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 4:27 pm I was railfanning at Odenton recently and noticed that a lot of the catenary hardware on Tracks 2 and 3 within and outside the station limits has been upgraded to match the hardware already in place on Track 1. Is this part of the ongoing improvements to the catenary intended to support the speed increases for the Avelia Liberty units? Or is this just a basic upgrade to modernize the catenary and maintain it for the existing ACS-64s and Acelas?

Standard regular upgrade and maintenance, just like the bed work they do every... what, five years now?

Some time last fall or summer TK 1 between BWI and New Carrollton was upgraded from 110 to 125 MPH operation. Since this event have northbounds that stop at both of the aforementioned stations gotten onto TK 1 at Carroll,(if not following MARC) or do they still make the crossover at Grove? Do they sometimes route a southbound Amtrak on
TK 2 to get around a southbound MARC on TK 3?
Andy

twropr wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 7:30 pm Some time last fall or summer TK 1 between BWI and New Carrollton was upgraded from 110 to 125 MPH operation. Since this event have northbounds that stop at both of the aforementioned stations gotten onto TK 1 at Carroll,(if not following MARC) or do they still make the crossover at Grove? Do they sometimes route a southbound Amtrak on
TK 2 to get around a southbound MARC on TK 3?
Andy

Depends on time of day. MARC is heavy southbound in the mornings then heavy northbound in the afternoons, so when Amtrak has to get past them they will hit Track 2 between CARROLL and GROVE.

This of course will be fixed if a few plans are enacted:

• When the LANDOVER interlock gets a 2 to 1 switch
• New Carrolton gets a platform off track 1
• GROVE to WINNANS four tracking (including BWI rebuild w/center platform)

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 11:07 am

twropr wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 7:30 pm Some time last fall or summer TK 1 between BWI and New Carrollton was upgraded from 110 to 125 MPH operation. Since this event have northbounds that stop at both of the aforementioned stations gotten onto TK 1 at Carroll,(if not following MARC) or do they still make the crossover at Grove? Do they sometimes route a southbound Amtrak on
TK 2 to get around a southbound MARC on TK 3?
Andy

Depends on time of day. MARC is heavy southbound in the mornings then heavy northbound in the afternoons, so when Amtrak has to get past them they will hit Track 2 between CARROLL and GROVE.

This of course will be fixed if a few plans are enacted:

• When the LANDOVER interlock gets a 2 to 1 switch
• New Carrolton gets a platform off track 1
• GROVE to WINNANS four tracking (including BWI rebuild w/center platform)

I thought LANDOVER was being removed from Tracks 2 and 3 because it was replaced with HANSON; is the latter interlocking not yet in service?

To answer the earlier question, I have seen southbound Amtrak services pass through Odenton station on Track 2, almost always shortly after a southbound MARC has departed on Track 3. My hypothesis is that the southbound Amtrak was switched at GROVE, goes around the MARC service somewhere near the Patuxent River, and returns to Track 3 at BOWIE. I have witnessed (and smelled) many northbound Amtraks braking through Odenton for the limited speed crossover from Track 2 to Track 1 at GROVE.