Track plan of NY penn station

Where can I find a trackplan of New York's Penn station - the current version?

Take two bottles, one with a narrow opening, another with a somewhat wider opening. Place them together bottom-to-botom. Point the narrower opening westward.

You now have a close approximation of Penn Station's present trackplan.

(Sorry. Couldn't help it.)

I'm not sure how easy it would be to find one on the Web anymore, but I believe the book, Passenger Terminals and Trains (Droege, 1916), had a Penn Station schematic. Out of print now, but I've seen it often on E-Bay. Check with the seller to verify that Penn Station is included.

Another book I dimly recall is Penn Station, Its Tunnels and Side Rodders, published in the late '70s. Also a possible E-Bay denizen.

I realize you want a modern schematic, but to the best of my knowledge (which will be promptly corrected if I'm wrong) there have been few changes to Penn's trackplan since it was built. The most notable being the LIRR West Side yards and the Empire Connection, both of which are more addendum than modification. Of course, dramatic changes from the original design have ocurred above the platforms, but that's a rant we all know too well.

Here is a post in the railfan.net with a link to the track plan:

http://forums.railfan.net/forums.cgi?bo ... 1037061994

Author Topic: Penn Station, NYC; Track Plan (Read 7209 times)
Pennsy
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Penn Station, NYC; Track Plan
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« on: Nov 11th, 2002, 7:46pm » Quick-Jump Reply w/Quote Modify
Hi All,

Found this while surfing. Gives you an idea how complex and busy the place is. The top is north, and the upper tracks are Long Island RR. The Middle tracks are Amtrak. Lower tracks are Port Authority, Trans Hudson, PATH. The East River Tunnels are on the right, four of them, and the Hudson River Tunnels are on the left, two of them.

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What is that slightly curvey line that is just below the Hudson River Tunnels? Is that the Empire Connection?

gprimr1 wrote:What is that slightly curvey line that is just below the Hudson River Tunnels? Is that the Empire Connection?

That it is. It loops northward, running over the North River tubes and under the West Side yard leads, then joins the former NYC West Side Freight Line for the run up to Spuyten Duyvil (spelled just like that).

I've never noticed it while riding, but the connection purportedly resembles a tame roller coaster, lifting and turning above the tubes, dipping below the yard, then lifting again to join the West Side. I'm sure the grades aren't substantial, but I'll try to remember to put my hands in the air and say "weeee" next time I head up the Hudson.


Edited to add: The Railfan.net post provided by CarterB notes that PATH trains use the southern platforms at Penn Station. They don't. PATH trains terminate a block east at a stub-end beneath 33rd Street and 6th Avenue. No track connection to Penn Station.

JFB wrote:to the best of my knowledge (which will be promptly corrected if I'm wrong) there have been few changes to Penn's trackplan since it was built.

Several changes circa 1930-- compare those as-built diagrams with the current one at the west ends of the platforms between tracks 9-10, 11-12 and 13-14. Also a x-over or two has been removed-- the 33rd St tunnels can't reach quite as many platforms as they used to.

Before West Side Yard, tracks 20-21 were able to reach the North River tunnels without a reverse move.

CarterB wrote:Here is a post in the railfan.net with a link to the track plan:

http://forums.railfan.net/forums.cgi?bo ... 1037061994

Author Topic: Penn Station, NYC; Track Plan (Read 7209 times)
Pennsy
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Thanks. That is what I wanted. I have used the station several times but had no idea of what the station as a whole was like.

Notice that there is provision at the East end of the Southernmost 5 tracks for access to another, not yet built, East River tube.

Pennsy, over on Railfan.net, wrote:Gives you an idea how complex and busy the place is. The top is north, and the upper tracks are Long Island RR. The Middle tracks are Amtrak. Lower tracks are Port Authority, Trans Hudson, PATH

Southernmost tracks are of course NJ Transit, not PATH. PATH runs north-south one block east, on 6th Avenue; last stop 33rd Street.

Here's a direct link to the diagram. Quite clear how the track plan favors the LIRR over the PRR, who had intended to retain Exchange Place Terminal back when this station was built. (And indeed, one of the original plans for NYP was for it to be a stub terminal accessed from the East River side via Queens, Brooklyn, Staten Island, and Rahway NJ...)

Oh my gosh!

How can we let such sensitive information be published? What if a not-nice person gets a hold of this! Just think of the consequences!

Just kidding.....I couldn't resist.

But I also had wondered about the track chart, and had decided not to even search since I thought the info would have been 'classified' by now.

Dave

I thought the same thing when I looked at it.

dbperry wrote:How can we let such sensitive information be published? What if a not-nice person gets a hold of this! Just think of the consequences!

I'll address this from an "official" standpoint with regards to the forum...

Track plans, in and of themselves, are not wepaons; one cannot actually use the track without access to rail equipment; and the ability to vandalize the track structure does not require a railroad map but simply access to the railroad itself.

There are many ways to engage in terrorism onboard or near railroad facilities; however the possession of a map does not automatically declare your intent; nor does a map provide substantial information allowing one to conduct such an act. Otherwise I would have to prohibit public timetables as well (since they provide the times for which trains are at specific locations); information on station locations and descriptions of stations (since they provide information on where large crowds meet for arriving trains), and other, inherently public pieces of information.

That said, if any of the members have a geniune concern about the posting of this information - please address it off-forum to Col. Perkowski or myself, and we will discuss and determine whether the content is appropriate. Else, let's continue the discussion on Grand Central Terminal.

Thanks for your participation on the Amtrak forum.

I have been working on a personal project to make a to-scale map of the railroads of the tri-state area. The project has two intentions - #1 as a learning experience for me, as I need to study the systems before I can draw them and #2 as a resource for fellow railfans. The project is starting with Metro-North, as that is the railroad I am most familiar with, and will eventually include the entire NJT and LIRR systems, as well as the Amtrak Shoreline and Springfield lines in Connecticut, and some of the freight lines in the area. Although I have heard a number of moral objections to this project by other railfans that are worried that these maps could be used for sinister purposes, I can't imagine a possible way that anybody could use this information to damage or harm the trains or passengers, which they couldn't otherwise do on their own. The point is proved because I am not a railroad employee, and therefore my research comes from publically seen observations, both from riding these lines and aerial photography, and from employee timetables and track charts, which despite being stamped "for employees only" seem to have no trouble being leaked out, both on website postings and ebay sales. The point is, if somebody wanted to use the data on my map for sinister purposes, they could have found this information on their own, and I seriously doubt that not having such easy access to a track map of NYP or GCT would thwart an attack. Nobody needs to know that the engine yard in Grand Central is numbered tracks 90-94 and is located between the leads to tracks 34 and 33 in order to plant an attack there, nor would they even care. They would just walk up one of the platforms or look out the window of a train and see what they need to see.

Anyway, I have completed a map of GCT which has been verified as of 2006 (actually, I was in GCT earlier today verifying some portions of this map), and will do the same for NYP when I get to that portion of the project, but I'm still a bit hasty about posting it on this board until the entire project is completed, since I know that some readers (and possibly moderators) share a completely different view on this subject than I.

In the meantime, this low-res preview should give the curious parties an idea of the layout of GCT, without giving anything specific away.

I can only speak for myself but I was joking about it.

search the archives of this board for the phase "track map" and you will find that there are others who aren't joking about thinking maps to be a major security risk