Discussion relating to the operations of MTA MetroNorth Railroad including west of Hudson operations and discussion of CtDOT sponsored rail operations such as Shore Line East and the Springfield to New Haven Hartford Line

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, nomis, FL9AC, Jeff Smith

  by gp40marc69
Does anybody know where I can get some track diagrams of Grand Central and the Park Avenue tunnel and viaduct? I also need some for the East River tunnels to Sunnyside.

  by DutchRailnut
I seriously doubt you get any of these, specialy after this Madrid deal.
Most railroaders are told to keep their stuff secure.

  by Otto Vondrak
gp40marc69- I've seen your posts on the other forums and I must say without telling us what you want these diagrams for you are painting yourself as one suspicious character. Track diagrams are easy to find, but why are you so curious about the tunnels of major railroad terminals? Not good stuff to be asking about when you know we're operating in a "heightened security" world.


  by gp40marc69
Sorry, I came onto like that. Well, I'll forget about the tunnel diagrams. The track layouts are the ones I actually need. The reason why I want the trakc layouts because I'm going to build a rail system either or MSTS, Auran, or Rail3D. I wanted to make a realistic train system based on Metro-North, SEPTa, and NJT. Well, I respect your views about the post9/11 and the post-Madrid situations. Well, I didn't mean to make myself a suspicious person. I'm really a transit enthusiast and a cartographer. I make some great maps and I've seen some great ones as well. Planning my one rail system. I'll tell about it later.

  by XRails
If I might explain on Ken's behalf, an MSTS (or any other train sim) route is a virtual recreaction of the real thing, often a small section of ROW on a rail line or a branch, etc. Route builders need track schematics so that they can lay the most prototypical track layout possible. This is often an essential part of a route builder's research. Also Ken, you may want to try the route building forums at http://www.Train-sim.com. They might be more understanding to your needs. Or have you tried there already?

  by DutchRailnut
Micro Soft Flight simulator was the prefered tool of the 9/11 hijackers.
even MSTS should not get to realisrtic or it will be used by people who should not.
Again is urge people not to support or send maps.

  by roee
I have to disagree with you, strongly. Maybe we shouldn't train any new pilots, ever. You never know what they might do. And maybe we should all build underground bunkers in our back yards and live in them and never leave. Do you really think track maps are going to make a difference? You don't need track maps to know that there are only 4 tracks leaving the park ave tunnel, or one bridge to get the trains off the island. Ohh know, I've given away too much... send the FBI to my house.

Security is one thing, but living under a rock is another thing.

  by Head-end View
ROEE has a point. Yes, we live in a changed world today. But railfanning has existed for decades, long before the terrorist attacks of the last few years. What are we supposed to do? Maybe shut down the entire railfan community (including this forum) in the name of national security?

In the wake of the 9/11 attacks, our government leaders encouraged us not to be intimidated, and to continue to go about our daily business. That's what we're doing. I'm still riding at the front window on those trains where you still can, and still studying track diagrams.

So let's try to keep a realistic perspective here.

  by XRails
Those terrorists want to alter our lives. I refuse to let some rat out in the caves of Afghanistan control what I should do and should not. Setember 11 took about 2000 American lives out of about 300,000,000. That means I have 1:150000 odds of dying in a terrorist attack. Hardly worth altering my life for.

  by SeldenJrFireman
The main tool of the 9/11 highjackers was a florida flight school and a few Boeing 767's, not flight sim. Flight sim probably got them used to the instruments that they needed to use in order to get the job done.

  by UpperHarlemLine4ever
For your information, there are books out there that give the track diagrams. In fact, the MTA in a calendar a few years ago about Grand Central posted a track diagram of the terminal.

Yes we should be ever vigilant but to brand the individual who started this post, a possible terrorist is a bit much. Is it possible, yes, likely no.

BTW, I'd love to see a Hudson or Harlem Line version of MTS Train Simulator. Someone created a Chicago El system program which is terrific. Train Simulator and BVE are two of the best programs out there.

  by tantg
Hi, can you please let me know the names of these books and if they are still avilable to purchase. This is for my own personal use as a railfan of the railroads around New York City and is solely for the purpose of satisfying my curosity about the track work in and around Grand Central Station.
  by UpperHarlemLine4ever
I don't have the names of the books but I have seen them.
  by nh chris
I guess it's ironic that in covering the story of the recent Amtrak/LIRR collision in Penn Station, the NY Times has a track plan for the entire section in today's Metro Section. So much for secrecy!