Discussion relating to the operations of MTA MetroNorth Railroad including west of Hudson operations and discussion of CtDOT sponsored rail operations such as Shore Line East and the Springfield to New Haven Hartford Line

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, nomis, FL9AC, Jeff Smith

  by M1 9147
I agree with both Otto's, and Dutchrailnuts point because since this 9/11 fiasco, and being deterred by MTA police at Grand Central by being told not to take pictures on platform level, it is not a good idea to get this simulator stuff for now. You'll never know what will happen at this day and time.

  by sodusbay
A simulator is just that, a *simulation*. It's for relaxation, for fantasy, and perhaps for practice. As long as someone is sitting behind the computer playing MS FlightSim, they're in no position to harm anyone. The point at which security should be applied is when people move from thoughts or fantasies to action, e.g. when someone tries to rent an airplane at Meigs Field.

If the terrorists succeed in taking away our innocent pleasures, they have won: they have changed our "decadent Western" lifestyle. I like to study track diagrams to see how railroad operations work. The NYT story on the Penn Station dispatcher's board fascinated me. I'm a railfan. So what? "It's a free country".

  by roee
I agree with sodusbay. Come on now, I don't think people playing MSTS over realistic routes is a problem. It isn't going to overly help terrorist do any harm to the US, any more than publishing schedules for the commuter trains and planes. Maybe we shouldn't publish schedule, and have the trains run at random times so that they don't know when a train might pass an area. That sounds so dumb, doesn't it? To me, that sounds as logical as does not giving out track diagrams or allowing people to play realistic MSTS games. The only difference between GCT and the rest of the route is its underground, so it can't be seen from walking by, but yet can be seen to inspectors and police looking for things. But as for a terrorist, they aren't going to go put something in on some side track by the switch that splits for x & y tracks. And don't you think they'd be noticed walking around by the tracks in the tunnels? If they are going to do something, it's either going to be near one of the 4 tracks coming out of the tunnels, or some random other place where it wouldn't be noticed. People seem to be way too paranoid. And if a terrorist really wanted to know the track layout in the tunnels.. how hard would it be for them to just ride a different train in and out of GCT everyday. It may take a while to get all the tracks.. but by going only one or two round trips a day, no one would ever notice.

Also, pre 9/11 this info was readily available, so isn't it quite possible that if they had this huge network set up before hand with sleeper cells, that they'd already have this info? So now for no reason you’re preventing people from living the free life that we've been accustomed too, for no reason.

To me... you've all just let the terrorist win. The minuite we can't have the freedoms and enjoy the lives that we had before, they've won.

I for one would love to be able to play a realistic MSTS Hudson Line Route from Poughkeepsie all the way to GCT. If you need some help on tracks and routes, pick up a copy of the "New England Railfan Timetable" for CSX, it has all the tracks for Metro-North all the way into GCT (execpt for the lower level) with every road it crosses and stream and the such. If you ever do build a Metro-North route, please let me know, I'd love to run it on MSTS.


  by BenH
Here are a two sources for you:

"Grand Central - Gateway to Millions"
By John Belle and Maxinne R. Leighton
ISBN 0-393-04765-2
W. W. Norton, 2000
- on page 61 you will find 3 track charts of terminal and approach tracks for G.C.T. Not sure what the date is, but I would imagine that not too much has changed. I bought my copy of this book, a few years ago, in the bookstore on the main level (west side).

"Grand Central... the World's Greatest Railway Terminal"
By William D. Middleton
ISBN 0-87095-071-1
Golden West Books, 3rd printing, 1981
pages 146-149 include very detailed charts of
the terminal tracks.

Both books are available on The Advance Book Exchange:

... and probably at the New York Public Library.
Last edited by BenH on Fri Apr 23, 2004 6:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

  by DutchRailnut
since those books were published MNCR did a big change in both signals and track layout.

  by tantg
Thank you for the imformation, I was able to get them from Amizon.Com
  by bingdude
You can piece together the track diagram yourself if you ride the train enough times.