The Bering Express

This trans-Bering railroad might be different - aside from service to industries in Russia and Canada, and interchange from the Alaska Railroad, nearly all trains will have the same consist all the way from southeastern Russia to British Columbia. The only stops would need to be for train inspection and repair, gauge change between 4' 8.5" and 1520 mm, customs, fueling (if diesel), and crew changes. They could even skip the crew changes if there was a crew car coupled behind the locomotives. Again assuming 79 mph MAS and low ruling grades, you might get an average closer to 55 mph between customs stops. Assuming 110 mph MAS, you'd even be able to reach 65-70 mph average, but at the expense of greatly increased energy costs. It'd be hard to make a case for anything faster than 79 mph really, with the increased regulation in this country and the high cost of electricity or diesel fuel worldwide.

It's all a fantasy of course, but let us not imagine US standards being applied outside the US, but rather Russian standards - double track and no nonsense about 79 mph. Study the standards used on the BAM.

First, contrary to what one might expect, there isn't a tectonic-plate boundary at the Bering Strait -- the North American / Eurasian boundary is well inland in Siberia; it continues north from the Sea of Okhotsk.

I'd collected some population figures and calculated some distances in the thread "High-speed trains vs. airline service". From Khabarovsk to the Bering Strait is 4500 km, about as far as from NYC to LA. From Edmonton or Vancouver to the Bering Strait is about 3500 km, which is not much better. Not only that, much of the route is permafrost terrain, which can be challenging to build on, and some of it is rather mountainous.

Populations from west to east:
Western end: Sapporo, Japan: 1.91m, Vladivostok, Russia: 0.58m, Khabarovsk: 0.58m, Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk: 0.17m
Magadan: 0.099m
Uelen: 776, Bering Strait, Nome, AK: 3505
Fairbanks, AK: 0.035m, Whitehorse, YT: 0.023m, Prince George, BC: 0.070m
Eastern end: Vancouver, BC: 2.12m, Seattle, WA 3.41m, Edmonton, AB: 1.03m, Calgary, AB: 1.08m

An average speed of 300 km/h would result in a travel time of over a day between Khabarovsk and Vancouver or Edmonton, and about a day and a half between Tokyo and Los Angeles. That's almost absurdly long by HSR standards.

To both of the above posters, I see this as a "world standard" operation, considering what is being carried, so I would expect that a high standard would prevail. In the case of American vs. Russian, it would be American, but I believe that this might be the time to install an expensive, fast moving, efficient system such as Mag-lev due to the fact that this operation would be financed by numerous world major powers with considerable assets, the importance of this line for many, and the distance situation.

This might not be as pie-in-the sky as initially thought. With global temperatures continuing to climb, it's not hard to envision a mass migration north as parts of the southern US/all of Mexico become totally uninhabitable due to scorching temperatures. Alaska's climate in 50 years may well resemble that of NYC (and NYC could be hotter than Miami). Of course, a lot of this is speculative. Temperatures may not climb as rapidly as thought, we could take preemptive actions to mitigate any effects (i.e. satellites blocking some percentage of solar radiation), or perhaps a few volcano eruptions will put enough ash into the atmosphere to counter the effects of increased CO2. Nevertheless, this is something to think about. If Alaska ever ceases to be the cold wasteland we think of it as, it might make sense to already have some good infrastructure in place.

It will also lessen the power of terrorist sponsoring countries such as Saudi Arabia, and remove the strong-hold that they have on Western countries. In our world, he who has the oil has clout. It would be nice to see Russia and the U.S. in that position, stable entities who have the might to ward off any attempts at a take-over.

3rdrail wrote:To both of the above posters, I see this as a "world standard" operation, considering what is being carried, so I would expect that a high standard would prevail. In the case of American vs. Russian, it would be American, but I believe that this might be the time to install an expensive, fast moving, efficient system such as Mag-lev due to the fact that this operation would be financed by numerous world major powers with considerable assets, the importance of this line for many, and the distance situation.

To continue with the fantasy, the Chinese are the only people with the capital to build it, so it would be their standards, and probably their gauge all the way.

Really ? What do you suppose is a days monetary cost for U.S. equipment and personnel in the mid-east ?

Patrick Boylan wrote:

steamal wrote: The Bering Strait is six miles wide.

You mean sixty don't you? http://www.worldatlas.com/aatlas/infopage/bering.htm says 58 miles, which I assume is at its narrowest, not necessarily the best place to cross.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/buildingbig/won ... annel.html says the Chunnel's 31 miles

When I wrote how wide the Bering Strait was, I was proceeding on some inaccurate information (grossly inaccurate it turns out).

3rdrail wrote:Really ? What do you suppose is a days monetary cost for U.S. equipment and personnel in the mid-east ?

Will the US return to being an accumulator of capital? I see no sign of it. People don't save and the whole culture borrows.

While its nice to think about grand, internationaly scaled projects such as this one, I don't think American priorities even come close to supporting the massive cost that this tunnel would entail. Consider the current situation in the lower 48. Governors are rejecting high speed rail money left and right, no one is willing to raise the gas tax, and highways, railroads, and bridges continue to crumble. Our country doesn't even have the political willpower to bring our existing infrustructure into the 21st century. If we can't agree to upgrade a short rail line in Wisconsin, how could we ever tackle an immense project though the harsh climate of Alaska?

Hi Mr. Metzger ! Welcome aboard and welcome to RRN ! My answer to your question is straight-forward. America is the country that put a man on the moon (I think). We fought Germans and Japanese at the same time and kicked both their asses. We've toppled many dibilitating diseases that other countries still struggle with. The level of comfort for the middle class in this country is at an all-time high. People play more and work less than any other country short of island paradises. There's not a lot that we can't do when we really put our mind to it. U.S. motorists are on the verge of a revolt. When gas goes to $5, voters are going to vote in whoever can really solve the problem. Anyone percieved as a non-solver is going to get booted. The tunnel will be built, and built in record time.

3rdrail wrote:There's not a lot that we can't do when we really put our mind to it. U.S. motorists are on the verge of a revolt. When gas goes to $5, voters are going to vote in whoever can really solve the problem. Anyone percieved as a non-solver is going to get booted. The tunnel will be built, and built in record time.

I agree, once America makes up its mind to something, it usually gets done.
But I also agree with Mr. Metzger, America has many other higher priority projects to do before tunneling under the Bering Strait. I would place that one last.....
Besides, how will it be possible to build a railroad line to the middle of nowhere when Alaska can't even build a highway bridge across Knik Arm from Anchorage? Americans aren't looking for alternate modes of transit - they're wanting alternate fuels so they don't have to pay $5 per gallon of gasoline more......

All those people currently driving to Russia are going to demand this tunnel.

Give me a break. Let this thread die.

3rdrail wrote:Hi Mr. Metzger ! Welcome aboard and welcome to RRN ! My answer to your question is straight-forward. America is the country that put a man on the moon (I think). We fought Germans and Japanese at the same time and kicked both their asses. We've toppled many dibilitating diseases that other countries still struggle with. The level of comfort for the middle class in this country is at an all-time high. People play more and work less than any other country short of island paradises. There's not a lot that we can't do when we really put our mind to it. U.S. motorists are on the verge of a revolt. When gas goes to $5, voters are going to vote in whoever can really solve the problem. Anyone percieved as a non-solver is going to get booted. The tunnel will be built, and built in record time.

Thanks for the welcome Mr. Joyce.

As for your post, all I can say is that I hope you're right! But I still sometimes get the feeling we're headed in the wrong direction. I mean, I don't think you can really argue that "middle class comfort is at an all-time high". (Maybe in 2007). And it seems that as gas prices have gone up and the economy has soured, the national interest in alternative forms of transportation has waned. The politicans who get voted in aren't going to be the one's who come up with scientific plans to get us off oil and onto trains and bikes. It's going to be the populists who promise to "stick it to those environmentalists" and lower the price of gas by drilling in ANWAR.

Don't get me wrong. I've lived in and loved America my whole life and I do think we have a lot of potential, but its been a long time since we've had the will to land a man on the moon.
~Mike

I have to agree. When you read how much leisure time other countries get (like Germany or France) and then read that paid vacations in the US continue to dwindle (I think the last I read was that the average salaried worker gets 7 days and takes fewer than that - and it's been on a decline for a long time) you can't honestly make that statement.

That may be one contributing reason for our new "can't-do" attitude. We're working longer hours to maintain a flat salary and it's kinda sucked the Dream Big, Build Big out of us.